Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 449 posts

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#301

Post by raphman »

freeflight wrote: post #111
notJim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Placing it near that airport may be the biggest risk Musk has ever taken.

It's not open yet, there's a chance it will never open. Might even be an investment opportunity: Swoop in and buy the whole mess once the German government decides it has thrown enough money into their bottomless pit.

That's not entirely correct. Sure, the passenger terminals are a big mess and it is not yet clear when they will open.

However, the cargo terminal has been in operation since 2013 [1].

[1] https://www.berlin-airport.de/en/business-partners/airlines-...

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#302

Post by mariorossi666 »

kmlx wrote: post #265
robert_foss wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a Berliner, on a personal level it would have been nice for me to have a Google office where they would have been. But I'm very happy about people standing up for their neighborhood and actually protesting. Having a Google office with >400 decidedly well-compensated people move in would very much change the neighborhood and not for the better. People fighting for their own local interests is what makes Berlin g…

> Having a Google office with >400 decidedly well-compensated people move in would very much change the neighborhood and not for the better. i don't understand this. so berlin would rather have poor citizens? how is that better for the city? and how would >400 "well-compensated" people affect the city in anything but a positive manner? has there been any sort of study as to how better wages affect a city?

> so berlin would rather have poor citizens?

not everything is about money

I take "poor citizens" but cultural fecund Berlin anytime over "rich" USA cities with homeless people living on the streets while FAANG workers spend half of their huge salary on mediocre apartments

> and how would >400 "well-compensated" people affect the city in anything but a positive manner?

a city is not only (I would say not at all) the offices of big corporations.

Berlin is also many other things like Köpi or Blu's graffiti in Kreuzberg that he removed few years ago because gentrifiers saw them as a way to keep the place "cool" and raise prices [1]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/19/why-we...

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#303

Post by reitzensteinm »

vertex-four wrote: post #287

Watching a SV company suddenly have to deal with German workers' rights (think: unions, significant protection from being fired without cause, rights to paid holiday and enforced maternity leave, even workers' councils which have representation at a management level) is going to be hilarious.

They already own Grohmann, so I'm guessing they have a fair idea. I remember a flap at the time about Tesla forcing them to ditch their other clients as quickly as possible, which was a bit of a culture shock, but why else would they have bought them in the first place?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Grohmann_Automation

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#304

Post by DangerousPie »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #259
DangerousPie wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Federal Republic is the correct term (and the literal translation of Bundesrepublik).

A federal republic is a form of federation, so calling Germany a federation of states is not wrong. Neither is calling it a federal republic more correct; just more specific.

The official name is Federal Republic. I have never seen anybody use the term "German Federation" and can't find many references on Google either.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#305

Post by roomey »

vertex-four wrote: post #287

Watching a SV company suddenly have to deal with German workers' rights (think: unions, significant protection from being fired without cause, rights to paid holiday and enforced maternity leave, even workers' councils which have representation at a management level) is going to be hilarious.

I get you are joking, but there are two points that I would like to raise:

There are many, many SV companies with large offices in parts of the world with very strong workers rights. I work in one of these. There is no problem, other then I'm not expected to work weekends and be on-call at unreasonable hours. If this is required I would need to be compensated for it.

Secondly; perhaps I am reading into this, but I get the sense you are implying that "less work" will be done due to these protections. You may be surprised to find out that German factories are actually quite efficient ;) , and that treating workers well gets them to work more, not less. Having a healthcare system that means you can bring your children to A&E at the weekend and not get caught for $1000s means you can come to work on Monday with a clear head.

Having protection from "right to work" means you can voice an opposing opinion without fear.

Having a paid holiday means you can come back to work refreshed with a clear mind, and not "burn out" as fast.

Having maternity, and paternity leave, means happier parents (like, in a abstract way, not like in a oh I haven't slept in 8 months I'm soooo happy way). Let's call it out here. Giving children a good start in life sets them up for success.

On a global team you can quite clearly see the results of the different work environments, and the various impacts each environment has. From a tech point of view, I see this most critically in the ability to voice controversial opinions, or push back against your manager for example.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#306

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

piva00 wrote: post #247
pilsetnieks wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, 200 years are a long time; in Europe 200 km is a long distance.

That saying is meant for a leisure trip, 200km is close by for almost any kind of industry these days.

It's a long way to commute!

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#307

Post by mariorossi666 »

jcranmer wrote: post #99
choeger wrote: post #2

Please drop your inevitable BER jokes below so we can recylce them properly later.

Wait, so if I have this correct, the airport took ~6 years to construct and 9 years and counting to correct problems with its construction? Meaning that it would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues? How does that happen‽

> Meaning that it would have been faster to tear the entire building down and rebuild it from scratch than it is taking to remedy the issues?

This sentence is never true.

It's not true in software it's even less so in construction.

The issues would have been there even if the construction was done perfectly, you always fix such massive infrastructure for their whole lifetime (it's not simply a building!)

This time they fucked up and the airport didn't pass the safety checks necessary to open it, but there is constant fixing and changing and upgrading and scaling in an airport facility.

Tearing down it and rebuilding it it's never an option and never a good idea, unless the structure is severely damaged or contaminated (e.g. asbestos)

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#308

Post by ptaipale »

Headline should be corrected: the site is near Berlin, but not in Berlin.

Reported site is Grünheide, some 40 km drive from Brandenburger Tor, and a bit shorter distance from the under-construction BER airport.

https://www.berlin.de/en/news/5972608-5559700-elon-musk-tesl...

What makes me curious is that this village is actually within a nature protection area, Naturschutzgebiet Löcknitztal. I could imagine that building such a symbol of international market economy there might attract anti-capitalist demonstrators and involve protesting and riots. But perhaps I'm wrong.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%BCnheide,+Saksa/@52....

I also find it somewhat interesting that in the political composition of this village of 8000 residents, the Social Democrats and Linke (Left) have 3 seats, and two seats are held by CDU, AfD, and.... Freiwillige Feuerwehr.

Yes, the voluntary fire brigade is apparently popular enough to feature in local politics. I think this is a somewhat sympathetic phenomenon in German local politics.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnheide_(Mark)

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#309

Post by avar »

vertex-four wrote: post #287

Watching a SV company suddenly have to deal with German workers' rights (think: unions, significant protection from being fired without cause, rights to paid holiday and enforced maternity leave, even workers' councils which have representation at a management level) is going to be hilarious.

You seem to be unaware that Tesla already has a sizable presence in Europe, including a final assembly plant in the Netherlands. Some of the details are different, but I don't see employing a significant amount of Germans being novel for them.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#310

Post by ptaipale »

rf15 wrote: post #272
iagooar wrote: post #168

It is great news for Berlin (and Brandenburg) as it will bring (big) money and attract talent. It might even attract people from Poland which is only an hour drive away and has a large pool of very talented and experienced engineers. So far besides maybe Siemens there wasn't too much industry here, which is more present in the south of the country. Being outside of the city center it won't contribute too much to gent…

No, this is bad news; it's a smaller version of the economic bomb/distortion of creating a google campus somewhere. This will be bad for everything from housing up to the general health of startup culture in Berlin. Desperate move by the economically starved Brandenburg. (and of course they won't suffer the consequences)

What consequences do you mean?

I could imagine that the factory staff would often live closer to the site, in Brandenburg, not in Berlin which has housing problems and is accumulating more of them through rent regulation.

Post reply on HN