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We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

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Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#301

Post by Fradow »

swebs wrote: post #285
cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

>"You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" Just put the bike lanes on the sidewalk instead of in the street then. That's how it's done in Finland and it seems much safer for everyone involved.

Don't know how that works out in Finland, but there are a few of those in Paris, and while they are just as good as those on the street at certain hours, at other hours they become overrun with inattentive pedestrians that confuse them for a sidewalk.

This makes those lanes dangerous for both cyclists and pedestrians as a result, and very slow for cyclists compared to a regular bike lane. A third to a half of the cyclists opt for the bus lane instead (despite it being forbidden to cyclists). And they are not slowing the traffic. In fact, cyclists move faster than cars at the particular location I have in mind.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#303

Post by fennecfoxen »

brnt wrote: post #296
rapnie wrote: post #232

What I see a lot in this thread is people's either/or opinions. Love cars / hate bycicles or vice versa. No. It is a balancing act, where cars, bycicles and public transport co-exist, and infrastructure is developed strategically in smart ways and in a prolonged effort. When I was young in The Netherlands for the most part the cars still dominated the streets. Over time I've seen cities and road networks gradually be…

As a Dutchman who's lived in a few places abroad, the cycling 'problem' is quite simple: it needs to be the norm. No helmet, because neither do you require them for pedestrians. You can cycle in all weather, just as you would walking (a hard mental one, my non-Dutch partner can't get over the idea cycling is for sunshine). Public space design must start with safe (no sharp turns, looking at you France!) and separate…

> electric biking is expanding your reach a few times over.

Electric bikes are motorcycles, and I don't want vehicles with the speed and acceleration characteristics of a motorcycle in my bike lane, if you please.

postscript: my very concerns for my safety seem to be getting voted down a lot considering that our friend the Dutchman here has given a rather nice reply recognizing the substantive nature of this conflict

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#304

Post by Ensorceled »

glangdale wrote: post #91
glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

I appear to have kicked off a frenzy of folks eurosplaining to me that they personally ride in deep snow, howling gales, and see no reason that people in hot climates (including hot humid climates with near 100% humidity, or extreme heat events) can't cycle everywhere at all times. Also they will all be happily cycling when they are 80 just like Grandpa Josef and Great-grandma Helga, etc. Congrats, but the statistics…

> As I said, I'm pro-cycling. Good for you, all you hardy souls. But it is a seriously boneheaded point of view to imagine that cycling is going to be more important as a mode of transport than public transport in most of the world under the conditions that exist now.

Here in Toronto, Canada, we are building out bike lanes, they are heavily used and it's pretty cheap to dedicate some lanes to bike traffic. They are used ALL year long, even in the snow. Yes, more people use them in the spring, summer, and fall, than in Dec-Feb, but they are used all year long.

Your complaints are not based in reality, either in cost or in usage patterns.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#305

Post by AllegedAlec »

walterstucco wrote: post #158
deanCommie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask the Dutch. How do they do it? Or do you assume they do not have young kids or grandmas? Why is it that whenever people talk about designing cities for pedestrians and bikes, someone on hackernews thinks it means eliminating all cars entirely forever. For a forum ostensibly designed for entrepreneurs, it shows a tremendous lack of imagination. Answer: * Public transportation inside cities such as buses and trams *…

> Ask the Dutch. How do they do it? Or do you assume they do not have young kids or grandmas? They do it the dutch way. Things you wouldn't do anywhere else, like leaving babies in their strollers in the streets outside shops when they go shopping. Denmark is really a big village. Source: my girlfriend family is Danish and I had saw them last time 4 days ago. > * Trains to rural areas It's more easily said than done.…

> They do it the dutch way.

> Denmark is really a big village.

?????

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#306

Post by aldanor »

systemtest wrote: post #169
cgrealy wrote: post #3

I live in Christchurch, NZ. After a massive earthquake in 2011, I had high hopes that we might redesign the city for the next 100 years instead of the previous 50 (i.e. for people, not cars). Instead the city council built a few bike lanes and even then people lost their goddamn minds. "You're taking away parking space!" "All these bike lanes are slowing traffic" "No one wants to bike into the city" Meanwhile, cyclis…

I live in a 750 year old European city. The medieval center is 1 kilometer in diameter. They wanted to make the center accessible only for cars of residents and suppliers of stores (up to 11am for suppliers). There are four underground parking garages directly surrounding the center and the walking distance from a garage to any location is never more than 450 meter. Free wheelchairs are provided from the garages. Thi…

Wondering which city is this if you don't mind answering?

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#307

Post by zimbatm »

Kaiyou wrote: post #287

I'm always wondering why it is the environment that has to change. I'm also living in a city and I neither own a car, nor a bike nor am I using public transport. I just walk everywhere I have to go. Think about why you can't just walk everywhere and if the answer is that you don't have the time, maybe you should consider just taking that time or reconsider life choices. Why can't you live near the things you need to…

There are a lot of different types of cities. European cities tend to be more dense and walk-able for historical reasons. Not everyone has the luxury of living in such nice environment or even moving places.

Even as a walker, cities would be so much nicer to walk into without the threat of cars and the pollution that they generate. Imagine walking in the middle of the road, fresh air, you have the space to cross people, some space could be reclaimed for plants and benches. Why not create the ideal environment if we can?

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#309

Post by brnt »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #303
brnt wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Dutchman who's lived in a few places abroad, the cycling 'problem' is quite simple: it needs to be the norm. No helmet, because neither do you require them for pedestrians. You can cycle in all weather, just as you would walking (a hard mental one, my non-Dutch partner can't get over the idea cycling is for sunshine). Public space design must start with safe (no sharp turns, looking at you France!) and separate…

> electric biking is expanding your reach a few times over. Electric bikes are motorcycles, and I don't want vehicles with the speed and acceleration characteristics of a motorcycle in my bike lane, if you please. postscript: my very concerns for my safety seem to be getting voted down a lot considering that our friend the Dutchman here has given a rather nice reply recognizing the substantive nature of this conflict

So in NL, this is tackled with a tiered classification, in which the lowest tier (This is not ideal, as the (fast) electric bike is new, also in NL, and people will misanticipate them (which I've experienced first hand). You're right, mixing speeds is a bad idea. This will improve with better infra (wider cycling paths, bike highways) and getting used to this new vehicle. On the other hand, the problem is similar to the scooter, which also doesn't fit the car or bike class, so perhaps with time a new type of lane must be invented. Some cities/political parties in NL are thinking of lowering the car speed limit from 50 to 30 (in urban area), which will facilitate mixing in scooters and electric bikes with car traffic.

Another important fact is liability: heavier vehicles are more liable (weight makes responsible). So in any accident between, say, car and electric bike, the car will be at fault by default, unless there is proof to the contrary. This leads to more cautious driving.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#310

Post by granshaw »

IgorPartola wrote: post #308

Might as well ask here, but why do bicyclists always seem to blow past stop signs and red lights? Whenever I am on a motorcycle, I always feel more endangered by a bicyclist coming out of nowhere than a car. Can anyone give me insight into this behavior?

The common refrain I’ve heard is that it takes quite abit of effort to completely stop and then get back up to speed on a bike
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