Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku • Hacker News Board

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#301

Post by cgh » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

msla wrote: post #109

Ovid wrote: post #2

This has been a huge deal for the Perl community. First, it was thought that Perl 6 would be the replacement for Perl 5. But it was long ago recognized that there was no clear upgrade path from Perl 5 to Perl 6, so it was agreed that Perl 6 was a "sister" language to Perl 5 rather than the successor. Except that many people expected that Perl 6 would be the replacement, so that stalled many projects. So an "alias" fo…

And this might save Raku. Lisp has a social problem: It's been called Lisp too long. People look at some simplified LISP 1.5-esque thing in a programming languages textbook and see a "pure" language (which isn't so pure compared to Haskell, but the creep of what "functional programming" means is its own post) which is completely useless. They don't see modern Common Lisp with its package management facility and its p…

> Calling it Raku is a chance to get what the Perl 6 team actually did out into the world without the stench of death following it.

"Raku" = "cancer" in Polish. Not a lot of Polish enthusiasm forthcoming, I'd imagine.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#302

Post by AlexCoventry » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

lilSebastian wrote: post #142

pmoriarty wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? Most of the anti-Perl comments I've heard have been from people who really didn't know it very well, if at all. Some of them might have glanced at some Perl code and saw a dense regex and dismissed it as "line noise". Well, yeah, if you don't know regexes you would be forgiven for thinking it was line noise, but if you did know regexes it should look no m…

> Most of the anti-Perl comments I've heard have been from people who really didn't know it very well, if at all. Indeed, I hope this thread gets picked up by http://n-gate.com/

You are violating the prime directive.

http://n-gate.com/hackernews/2017/08/22/0/

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#303

Post by AlexCoventry » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:14 AM UTC

rubinelli wrote: post #34

smacktoward wrote: post #9

Fifteen years too late. But I suppose better late than never.

Had they done it fifteen years earlier, I think Perl could have been the language to learn for Data Science. It still is a fantastic language to slice, clean up, and extract information from text files, and it was already very widely used in bioinformatics.

Perl was built on a shaky foundation from the start. It was inevitable that it would collapse under its own weight.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#304

Post by maksimum » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:17 AM UTC

labster wrote: post #252

weff_ wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ovid2 said Perl6 has a good concurrency model lliamander replied that Elixir does too and it's worth a look To that, 7thaccount replied that Perl6 and Elixir fill different niches. So far, it seems Perl6 fills a niche that requires scripting and first-class concurrency. My question then is: what is this niche that requires very solid concurrency but also scripting. In other words, what does Perl6 have in terms of con…

Does Python 3 have any operators that transform ordinary method calls into concurrent method calls? Perl 6/Raku does.

Yes, async/await. https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-task.html#awaitabl...

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#305

Post by skinniks » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

j9461701 wrote: post #188

pmoriarty wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? Most of the anti-Perl comments I've heard have been from people who really didn't know it very well, if at all. Some of them might have glanced at some Perl code and saw a dense regex and dismissed it as "line noise". Well, yeah, if you don't know regexes you would be forgiven for thinking it was line noise, but if you did know regexes it should look no m…

>How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? It's what my company's entire code base is written in. So every hour of every work day for the past 6 months. >To me it looks really no uglier than any other mainstream language, and one could easily make the argument that any other mainstream language you care to name is uglier in some of its own ways. It's no one thing, but a bunch of little things tha…

I've worked on large 20 year old Java and C applications (OLTP and batch processes) and I can assure you that they can be as ugly as any old Perl code you have dealt with.

Saying that I see absolutely nothing wrong with that perl code you are highlighting as being obtuse or ugly. Anyone who understands Perl should not have an issue with that line. It is clear and concise.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#306

Post by Causality1 » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

Ovid wrote: post #2

This has been a huge deal for the Perl community. First, it was thought that Perl 6 would be the replacement for Perl 5. But it was long ago recognized that there was no clear upgrade path from Perl 5 to Perl 6, so it was agreed that Perl 6 was a "sister" language to Perl 5 rather than the successor. Except that many people expected that Perl 6 would be the replacement, so that stalled many projects. So an "alias" fo…

Rather reminds me of what happened with Palm OS 5 and Palm OS 6. Both ended up adopting separate names but because OS 6 wasn't backwards compatible the sheer weight of legacy software kept it from ever catching on.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#307

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #126

Upvoter33 wrote: post #73

I'm amazed that Perl is still around. I personally find it the least readable language that I've ever used, and that includes a lot of languages. But some people really seem to love it, for reasons a bit beyond me.

How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it? Most of the anti-Perl comments I've heard have been from people who really didn't know it very well, if at all. Some of them might have glanced at some Perl code and saw a dense regex and dismissed it as "line noise". Well, yeah, if you don't know regexes you would be forgiven for thinking it was line noise, but if you did know regexes it should look no m…

[deleted]

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#308

Post by zaphirplane » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

weff_ wrote: post #209

ajoseps wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing because Python's concurrency relies on the Global Interpreter Lock. Although I think concurrent.futures might address that. Haven't worked with python concurrency libraries in a bit.

as I posted above: I agree the GIL is a problem but it's only an issue for CPU-bound problems. Is there really an important amount of CPU-bound work that is written in a scripting language? If it's CPU-bound, wouldn't you want to use something lower level?

There is machine learning, which usually calls into numpy or other c extensions With a lot of the data preparation done in python

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#309

Post by weare138 » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

jrumbut wrote: post #300

weare138 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a decent amount of experience with Perl 5 and one of Perl's greatest features is also sometimes it's greatest liability, versatility. It's permissiveness tends to facilitate poor coding styles and methods which is why there's alot of bad Perl out there. Plus Perl 5 is just different for lack of a better term. If your proficient newer languages, Perl 5 and the Perl way of doing things probably seems a little st…

It's different from the newer languages, it's different from the older languages, it's it's own thing. I find it really beautiful for that reason. Who knew you could do that in a programming language? Not sure I would have ever thought to try. I even love the above sample while loop, you can tell the person who posted it is good because they can't create too heinous an example. The and $_ provide what I think of as v…

I totally agree, I didn't mean what I said in a negative way at all. That's how I got into Perl. What made it cool to me was just how different it was. It's experimental, esoteric and functional all at the same time depending on how you use it.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#310

Post by Conan_Kudo » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

ken wrote: post #267

ether_at_cpan wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doh, yes, system 6 was current for quite a while. I wonder what other thing from that era I confused it with. I swear something around that time skipped a 6.

Solaris skipped from 2.6 to 7. UnixWare also jumped from 2.x to 7. HP/UX skippped from 3.x to 6.x. In perhaps the strangest version jump of all time, Darwin jumped from 1.4.1 to 5.1, as part of Mac OS X 10.1.1. It seems Unix vendors really don't like low version numbers. Of course, Windows famously jumped from 3.x to 95, so it's not like they're any better.

Windows 95 was Windows 4.0. There are several parts of Windows 95 that even indicated this in a user-visible way.

Microsoft was surprisingly good at not skipping numbers, until the jump from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10, which also lead to the NT kernel jumping from 6.x to 10.