Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open offices are a dead end

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–307 of 307 posts

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#301

Post by loco5niner »

samsolomon wrote: post #151

Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I like open offices. It's nice being able to turn around and have quick meetings without wasting time looking for a room. It's also nice being able to scoot a chair over to work with a team member on a problem. As a general rule people don't interrupt others if they have headphones on. Maybe it's a problem for companies with product and engineering next to sales. Other than tha…

> Maybe it's a problem for companies with product and engineering next to sales. Other than that I'm not entirely sure where all the hate comes from.

Yep, that's the main problem for me.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#302

Post by whycombagator »

scarface74 wrote: post #296
whycombagator wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you’re spending time at a job that is leading to “anxiety”, “stress”, and “burn out”, you’re optimizing for PTO when you should be optimizing for finding a job that doesn’t stress you out while you’re working. I never suggested my job was any of those things or that I practice “optimizing for PTO”. Far from it.

From the original post... You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety At this point in my career, I wouldn’t let a job lead to any of the negatives nor would it stop me from spending time with friends or family.

Your inference is incorrect.

Where in that quote, or my posts, do I say I "optimize for PTO", or that my job is stressful or causes anxiety? I don't.

I was specifically talking about/referring to low PTO and what it does to me - and why I think 28 days as a floor is beneficial.

A final few thought experiements for you (I don't expect you to reply answering these...):

- If your employer offered you 15 days extra PTO, would you take it?

- How would you use it? Where would you go? What would you do?

- How would those extra 15 days impact you?

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#303

Post by braindouche »

themodelplumber wrote: post #115
pmlnr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - up to date with technology and great chances for resume building. Resume driver development is bad for the planet, you, for everything. Java programmers still find jobs; COBOL programmers are still needed; FORTRAN is still alive, so I'd rather find something that will not go away in my lifetime than trying to keep up with trends.

There's really something to this. A friend of mine recently received an email to her dev shop criticizing her for using PHP. The funny thing is, she knows the guy who sent the email. He runs an IT business and sent an article to her client about the latest web technologies, then the client said "we use PHP, is that OK?" to which IT guy, with close to zero web experience, replied that it wasn't. I was pretty upset on…

For you and your friend: http://phpdoesnotsuck.com

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#304

Post by scarface74 »

whycombagator wrote: post #302
scarface74 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the original post... You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety At this point in my career, I wouldn’t let a job lead to any of the negatives nor would it stop me from spending time with friends or family.

Your inference is incorrect. Where in that quote, or my posts, do I say I "optimize for PTO", or that my job is stressful or causes anxiety? I don't. I was specifically talking about/referring to low PTO and what it does to me - and why I think 28 days as a floor is beneficial. A final few thought experiements for you (I don't expect you to reply answering these...): - If your employer offered you 15 days extra PTO,…

If 8 more days is the difference between having “anxiety” or “burnout”, that means you are already close to the edge.

If I had 15 more days what would I do with it? Stay at home and try to burn through it? My lack of PTO isn’t what’s preventing me from taking more vacations.

Visiting friends and family? They work and have families too.

Hobbies? With who? All of the people who have jobs so that we could only get together after work or on the weekends?

In other words, the impact wouldn’t be that much.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#305

Post by whycombagator »

scarface74 wrote: post #304
whycombagator wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your inference is incorrect. Where in that quote, or my posts, do I say I "optimize for PTO", or that my job is stressful or causes anxiety? I don't. I was specifically talking about/referring to low PTO and what it does to me - and why I think 28 days as a floor is beneficial. A final few thought experiements for you (I don't expect you to reply answering these...): - If your employer offered you 15 days extra PTO,…

If 8 more days is the difference between having “anxiety” or “burnout”, that means you are already close to the edge. If I had 15 more days what would I do with it? Stay at home and try to burn through it? My lack of PTO isn’t what’s preventing me from taking more vacations. Visiting friends and family? They work and have families too. Hobbies? With who? All of the people who have jobs so that we could only get toget…

> If 8 more days is the difference between having “anxiety” or “burnout”, that means you are already close to the edge.

Truly I am at the precipice /s

More seriously, if you went from 20 days PTO to 28 that is a 40% increase. Bundled in with typically longer holidays like Xmas or Thanksgiving 8 days PTO can be 2 full weeks off

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#306

Post by [deleted] »

JohnFen wrote: post #299
whycombagator wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me So, to clarify, PTO can range from something like 0 days to 60 days. Salary variance is much larger and the ceiling is higher, so OP not putting a salary number makes sense. It does not, however, make sense to provide no floor for PTO (which the OP did) IMO the floor for PTO should be 28.

> IMO the floor for PTO should be 28. I have never seen a company (in the US) that offers that amount of PTO without having to have been working for them for a decade or two first.

[deleted]

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#307

Post by whycombagator »

JohnFen wrote: post #299
whycombagator wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me So, to clarify, PTO can range from something like 0 days to 60 days. Salary variance is much larger and the ceiling is higher, so OP not putting a salary number makes sense. It does not, however, make sense to provide no floor for PTO (which the OP did) IMO the floor for PTO should be 28.

> IMO the floor for PTO should be 28. I have never seen a company (in the US) that offers that amount of PTO without having to have been working for them for a decade or two first.

For more established corporations that's usually the case, yes.

As I alluded to in other comments, most companies in the US do not put 28 in writing currently. A subset of the "unlimited"/"flexible"/"open" PTO companies will allow you to take 28 days.

Such companies do exist, I have worked at a couple already and know people working at others enjoying the same benefit.

However, off the top of my head, Mailgun offers ~28 days PTO in writing. Wikimedia foundation has "flexible" vacation and 19 paid holidays.

Post reply on HN