Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#301

Post by enriquto » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 9:30 AM UTC

jobigoud wrote: post #298

geofft wrote: post #56

Worth noting that (as far as I know) Stallman was not a paid employee of MIT, certainly not a professor or anything. He had an office because, I believe, Gerry Sussman (and probably others) thought he should have an office. He's listed as a "visiting scientist" on CSAIL's page: https://www.csail.mit.edu/person/richard-stallman He's around on the mailing list (mostly to reply to every mention of software with a questi…

> it also has far less of an impact on his life or his goals than resigning from the FSF would He did resign from the FSF as well. https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns

This is a very sad situation. I hope that the FSF does not lose him forever.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#302

Post by hopethathelps_ » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 9:31 AM UTC

RickSanchez2600 wrote: post #85

claudeganon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I’m happy to live in a future where bankrolling the denial of other’s human rights is something that can cost you your job, even if you’re wealthy and powerful. No one would have questioned him being forced to resign if he had financed an anti-miscegenation initiative. It’s just that hatred of LGBTQ people is still normalized to the extent that people think you should be “given a pass.”

Eich is Catholic, his faith does not believe in gay marriage. He donated to a charity that was against gay marriage on the ballots. Because of that he was forced to resign.

He donated to a charity that worked to take away my "god given" (I didn't choose to be born gay, I just was) rights. He absolutely should have been forced to resign and I'm glad he did. You're also a real asshole if you think that donating to an anti-gay charity is right.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#303

Post by foobar_ » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

Eww Richard Stallman is a creep. Good riddance. Epstein is kinda hot.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#304

Post by pvaldes » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #45

esotericn wrote: post #16

Is anyone else baffled by the idea that discussing something on an intellectual level, even related to a person, has to somehow be a 'defense' or an 'offense'? I've spent basically my entire life discussing things in the abstract. I'm not a politician, I don't make laws, and frankly I wouldn't want that power. To me it makes absolute sense that someone would attempt to "defend" even the most heinous person. It's weir…

I only takes a handful of people to escalate an abstract discussion into a direct personal attack, by claiming that the speaker's abstract discussion hurt their feelings. It's basically a weaponization of empathy, that gathers momentum by preying on a human bias to support others when they claim to have been wronged.

"weaponization of empathy", I like it. Smart coined concept for something that seems to appear everwhere currently. Should be discussed more.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#305

Post by enriquto » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

miracle2k wrote: post #154

selfawareposter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it was also awful in context. It was taken directly as the girl being “willing” when what he actually said was that she may have been coerced by Epstein into appearing to be “willing” to Minsky. It doesn’t help that he has a documented history of fucked up comments in this general area.

Should news outlets and social media personalities who do purposefully take this comments out of context (and I think there can be little doubt that it is done on purpose [1]) be punished? [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/famed-mit-computer-scientist-r...

Clearly. This is a false accusation that damaged his work and reputation. At the very least, these news outlets and media personalities must be compelled to apologize publicly.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#306

Post by pryce » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:03 AM UTC

eoxenford wrote: post #122

Throughout this whole brouhaha, I’ve been astonished at how nobody in the mainstream press, nor any of those in tech calling for Stallman’s head, ever challenged the statement that Stallman said Epstein’s victims were “entirely willing.” Indeed, quite the opposite. From the Medium post that kicked the whole thing off [1]: …and then he says that an enslaved child could, somehow, be “entirely willing”. And from Vice [2…

Thank you for clarifying this, and I have noticed and shared the same concern about these articles putting words in Stallman's mouth.

Please note, I am one of the people in tech who thinks Stallman should resign from leadership roles for the comments he made; the media coverage which mischaracterises his comments and especially so in headlines (looking at you, Vice) is unethical, and damages the assessment of what he actually said.

What he actually said, unfortunately, is in my view incompatible with him continuing in his leadership roles.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#307

Post by pvaldes » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:07 AM UTC

zbaylin wrote: post #231

akuchling wrote: post #11

Yes, but will he step down from his role with the Free Software Foundation? I'm more concerned about that, since that's a more public-facing role.

He has resigned from the FSF https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns

Hum, this had escalated quickly, with all the fake news and duck hunting and the strange patterns seen in the last months about how we need a better name for gimp, for moral reasons none less, how great is that apple has now an equivalent to 'festival' and other small strange things.

Open source is in a really complicated moment for its survival. Is like we would had arrived to a sort ot 'extinguish and replace' phase.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#308

Post by Udik » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:31 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #148

darawk wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The arguments Stallman presented were hardly arguments and were not novel at all. You think that Minsky being unaware of the coercion would not be a mitigating factor in accusing him of sexual assault? When was that decided?

I genuinely don't think that was a novel argument to his interlocutors. I think they'd thought of that, and I think they have good counterarguments. (I'd like to not get into arguing about Minsky's own actions or about mitigating factors in sexual assault in this particular thread. 'esotericn is talking about what is reasonable to discuss or not in which circumstances, not about the merits of the argument in question…

So what you are saying, after a rather long discussion, is that you can't point a fault in what Stallman wrote, but you think that those who were outraged must have had a good argument to be so. And you agree with them despite not knowing what that argument was. Is that correct?

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#309

Post by yabadabadoes » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:37 AM UTC

danso wrote: post #32

melling wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t follow the story. Was Stallman taken out of context? Anyway, he probably should have know better than to weigh in. One’s well thought out response and subtle points can often turn out to have a few holes. In fact... “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged”

Someone emailed an event for protesting Minsky, and Stallman accused her of wrongly inflating the term "sexual assault" when using it to refer to Minsky and Epstein. Stallman bends over backwards for Minsky, saying that he shouldn't be automatically to blame if Epstein forced someone to have sex with him. It's little different than the absurd pretzel that Lessig bent himself into when trying to defend his friend Joi…

I find this whole thing absurd. How could a Stallman that leverages a US military contractor to do good in one area of rights, exist if he could not bend his own logic into a pretzel in a way that accepts evil money and redirects it based on pragmatic logic?

The US is engaged in finding an equal hated group among the left and right and then attacking anyone who is remotely associatable with them or willing to make any argument that implies a defense of someone associated with them. We have seen this behavior before and it does not ever end well.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#310

Post by steveeq1 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:42 AM UTC

partialrecall wrote: post #232

mixologic wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that somehow absolve Minsky? A "willing" obviously young girl seems to want to have sex with somebody she doesnt know. If Minsky suddenly find himself in the plot to a porno, and just went along with it, then trying to defend his moral culpability is probably a lot out of the bounds of acceptability.

I didn't say it would absolve Minsky. Somebody who has sex with a prostitute is lower than dirt in my book.

Why? As long as both people are consenting I don't see an issue with it. What makes the person "lower than dirt"?