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Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

latimes.com

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Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#301

Post by sizzle »

samstave wrote: post #202
brink wrote: post #4

I just got an itemized bill today for a minor fall I took a couple months back.. On top of the nearly $6k in other charges from the hospital, they charged $531 for one dab of superglue or "liquid stitches" on my forehead for something that would have healed by itself. One of my friends died two years ago from pneumonia. He didn't go to the hospital when symptoms first started because he was afraid of the bills that w…

Ok so know that you can go against this. I was once charged $1,500 for a doctor to talk to me (without ever touching my physical body) to “prescribe” me over the counter motrin.... I then questioned them on this and they said “well it was a prescription” : i said you never even physically touched me. “So im going to tell you what this was worth to me: $50” They then said “okay we will charge you $297 for the visit” I…

Awesome story, any good references for you to date medical coding based off your background?

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#302

Post by agumonkey »

tryitnow wrote: post #47

I went to the ER last year. They ended up making me stay overnight. I was hit with a bill for over $10K, with much of that falling on me. I also used to work in corporate finance and I have a good intuition for how billing works. Before I even got the bill I mentally prepared myself for it by telling myself that it's going to be a long drawn out process. I waited and waited and received an initial bill a few months a…

This is staggering..

Also reminds me of unplanned importation fees. Transporter started to send me letters after letters. I bounced emails as long as possible asking for some explanation. After a few months and a few lawyer agencies (mind you it was just a few SBC bought online) they accepted to make me pay for a much smaller amount, sending me the same bill but with an added line "deal rebate" and that was it.

I wonder how much money get lost this way...

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#304

Post by sizzle »

brycehamrick wrote: post #211
mwambua wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean when you say the itemization was incorrect? Do you mean that the prices that they list were incorrect, or that the items didn't make sense given the treatment you received? In either case, what reference do you use to ascertain correctness? I feel like information asymmetry is a problem for a lot of patients. It's hard to tell if you actually need a treatment, or if you're being charged fairly for it…

Upcoding is extremely common and almost never comes with any consequences. It's routine for staff at the hospital to add line items for things that never actually happened. I've personally seen procedure codes for neuropsychological testing in the ER when the staff never completed those exams, as an example. The billing codes require very specific actions to have taken place in order for the insurance companies to re…

This is outright fraud.. I wish I could wear a bodycam into the hospital and have the footage confirm everything I'm billed for is actually administered and necessary for the diagnosis I'm provided by the physician.

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#305

Post by robomartin »

The cost of medical equipment in the US often has very little to do with the BOM costs (Bill of Materials, the cost of the parts required to manufacture the product). Medical equipment providers have massive and onerous regulatory burdens on top of certification requirements. Even a relatively simple product an cost tens of millions of dollars to bring to market after design and engineering is completely done.

This is one of the key problems with the US healthcare system and why talk of this or that insurance scheme (regardless of content) is absolutely ridiculous.

To use a parallel, it's like talking about selling a $10 burger for less without changing the underlying cost structure that causes a burger to have to be sold for $10.

Anyone who proposes a "new and improved" insurance scheme betrays an utter lack of understanding of the most fundamental of concepts: If you don't do a thing about baseline costs there is no insurance-based solution that can ever "fix" the problem.

This means taking a very hard look at the cost (in time and money) of the regulatory burden as well as the other element of that cost structure: Tort reform. Both of those factors increase the cost of absolutely everything even remotely related to the medical industry. Fix that first and then medical insurance will magically become cheaper and better.

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#306

Post by sizzle »

nickjj wrote: post #125
awb wrote: post #44

Just to pile on about how ridiculous medical costs are: After giving birth my wife was offered Ibuprofen. On the bill we were charged $80 for the 2 pills she took. This was before Obamacare. After Obamacare I twisted my ankle and the doctors insisted I wear a cheap fabric boot with stiff plastic plates while it healed over the next couple weeks. I asked how much it cost and they said $280. I took it off and refused i…

Yeah it's nuts. Someone I know sprained their ankle. They recommended that he should use a cane for a while and said they had one to give him. When the bill came weeks later it was $200 for the cane that looked really close to what you can get for $20 at Walmart. The really messed up thing is I drove him to the doctor and I carried some of the paperwork out (wasn't the bill) so he could use both hands to move around…

Wow way to add insult to injury, couldn't even spare a simple band-aid...

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#307

Post by sizzle »

isostatic wrote: post #121

I live in the UK. My father had a stroke a couple of days ago. He’s in intensive care on a ventilator. Total bill so far: £2 parking. Also the coffee machine in the relatives waiting room was out of sugar.

Someone close to me had a rare stroke (intercerebral hemorrhagic stroke) and Medicare part A and B are covering 60 days of full inpatient stay at a state of the art ICU. I guess things aren't so bad for Americans over 65 on Medicare.

Good luck to your dad, wishing him a speedy recovery as I also sit next to my loved one also on a ventilator and in a medically induced coma as their brain recovers from the large hematoma left behind from the stroke.

Being in a situation like this really makes me come to terms with my own mortality and how short life truly is in the grand scheme of things. I think I'm going to start volunteering to help those in need and donate my time and professional skillset to nonprofits as a result. Good luck with everything friend.

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#308

Post by javajosh »

m101 wrote: post #297
chanon wrote: post #284

I live in a developing country ... Thailand. Reading things like this, stories in this thread, and about how people are avoiding seeing the doctor because they're afraid of the bills ... makes me realize in some ways Thai people actually have a higher quality of life than many in US in this respect. Costs are order of magnitude(s) lower. A night in the hospital is typically 5,000-10,000 baht or $166-$333. And the qua…

Sounds like people should take some time off work and fly to Thailand for treatment. Any reason why there isn't more medical tourism? They do this in the UK for getting dental treatment in Eastern Europe where fillings can cost €20 each.

Well, one reason people don't become medical tourists are concerns about quality. Americans in particular are still convinced, despite ample evidence to the contrary, that our medical system is the highest quality in the world - and that this justifies the costs.

I believe this is false. Healthcare quality is basically the same in all first-world countries, the only difference is cost structure. (My wife had a c-section in Germany and our total cost was about 100 euros for an optional private room.)

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#309

Post by WA »

As a German, this whole thread reads entirely bizarre. The US health system is the blind spot of the nation. The kind of fuckery you people have to endure every day and the kind of thought processes it requires, is astonishing.

As a German, you don’t have to spend any brain cycles on health insurance or medical costs. If you’re self-employed, you maybe need to think about getting private insurance. Besides that: health care is just there for you. You don’t have to pay almost anything from your own pocket (besides glasses and some depending on the age).

The financial aspects usually can’t ruin you. Prices are "normal". I had a US friend over a while back. She had a tooth ache. The dentist fixed it and the bill was like 180 bucks or so. She couldn’t believe how cheap it was compared to the US. And this wasn’t some shitty job with inferior materials or whatever.

Re: Medical equipment pricing is completely broken when a sling costs $200

#310

Post by com2kid »

alexanderdmitri wrote: post #267
com2kid wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I went to the ER I got an itemized bill in a week for $300 or so. All medical imaging I've had done has had pricing given up front showing what they where going to bill the insurance company and what the insurance company was going to pay and what I'd have to pay. My non-emergency visits have a $40 copay up front. Only the nightmare cases get talked about.

Conjecture is silly when there's good data to be had. The number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States: > "medical expenses"[0] The average amount charged for an ER visit in the United States: > between 2008 and 2017, the average price of hospital ER visits rose 135 percent, from $393 to $924[1] The cost of an ambulance ride in the United States: > $164/mile[2] And make sure to compound the monetary cost with…

ER visits at 924 are still far below the stories in this thread of 4-5 digit $ visits for simple issues.

The OOP is still averaging under 300, again, not the horror stories in this thread.

Problems exist, but it seems that only a small % of providers are horribly abusing the system.

(of course a small % across over 300 million people is still a lot of harm!)

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