I have spent 6 months building a gig econ app that now is around 5 million valuation. I can assure you it is not easy. If the government doesn't want 1099 workers because technology has made them viable at scale then we need to throw gig econ apps some help with W2 workers. Even changing I9 documentation would be a massive improvement.
California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
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Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#302Does anyone know how this will effect Google contractors? Seems like they'd have to make them employees under this ABC test.
Most Google contractors are already employees, just employees of some vendor or contracting firm instead of Google itself. I don't think the ABC test prohibits that kind of arrangement.
So that just means Uber won’t allow people to sign up to drive directly. Uber will contract with companies, who allow people to signup. Those companies will “employ” people at the same terrible rates Google contractors get with no medical or benefit of any kind.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also not an accountant or lawyer, but I think that if you're paying someone by the hour, and directing them as to how they should do they job, they need to be classified as an employee, not a contractor. This means a W2 instead of a 1099, plus you need to pay them on a fixed schedule, pay social security and medicare taxes (and likely other taxes depending on jurisdiction) on their wages, deduct income taxes, do an I…
> Also not an accountant or lawyer, but I think that if you're paying someone by the hour, and directing them as to how they should do they job, they need to be classified as an employee, not a contractor. > This means a W2 instead of a 1099 [...] I'm a freelance developer in NY and this isn't the case. When someone requests me to do work for them they tell me what they want done, we scope out the project and then I…
It will probably come as a surprise to you (it did me several years ago), that it’s not simply up to you and the company hiring you if you are considered a freelancer.
This is not a matter of billable vs guaranteed hours. It’s a classification based on employee control over the person in question.
In fact, if you were micro directing the people you paid 1099, you may have had what the state of NY would consider an employee. Yes you’ll probably never get found out, but that doesn’t negate the fact.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, other than the minor hassle that they need to know how to issue a W2 and get enrolled for workers comp insurance and pay their estimated taxes for them. None are super hard, but they are barriers for people who aren't used to hiring people, which is the case for I think a lot of self-employed people. I only finally bothered to learn how to do it all last year when I needed some extra help with projects for my c…
These ( incredibly small ) requirements you list for having a small number of part time employees have been legal obligations for more than 50 years. So yes, you have to fill out 5 forms, and write 4 checks, every year for withheld taxes. But none of this qualifies for “it’s sad, it’s getting hard to be a small business”. They’re just things everyone in the US has been legally obligated to do for part time employees…
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Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#305California industry revolutionizes businesses, California government ruins them.
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you expect from your studio assistant that you think might put you at risk of a number of lawsuits? Honestly, if you want to hire someone to do some work a few hours a week then you are basically hiring a part time employee. There's nothing dangerous around doing this and it's certainly not a minefield if you treat them with the respect that any employee deserves.
Well, other than the minor hassle that they need to know how to issue a W2 and get enrolled for workers comp insurance and pay their estimated taxes for them. None are super hard, but they are barriers for people who aren't used to hiring people, which is the case for I think a lot of self-employed people. I only finally bothered to learn how to do it all last year when I needed some extra help with projects for my c…
ADP does this all for you for the low price of about $20/month/employee. It's even cheaper once you have more employees.
There are dozens of other major competing payroll services providers.
Why do people on HN expect others to learn PC or Internet security but themselves throw in the towel trying to learn relatively simple tasks?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#307What this means: much more expensive Uber/Lyft rides which in turn means fewer riders, and thus, fewer drivers out on the road and longer wait times. The labor market is a complicated thing, much more complicated than just supply and demand. But these types of controls are often not the right tool for the problem.
>>But these types of controls are often not the right tool for the problem.
1- Do you believe Uber/Lyft/etc exploit any part their labor for corporate gain? 2-What do you believe is the correct control to prevent labor exploitation by Uber/Lyft/ect, assuming your answer to 1 is true?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
The bill makes an exception for engineers, among other professions: > An individual who holds an active license from the State of California and is practicing one of the following recognized professions: lawyer, architect, engineer, private investigator, or accountant.
That would not apply to software developers, even if they call themselves engineers, software developers are not licensed professional engineers (i.e. civil engineers). For example a Software Developer can't start a professional corporation in California like a lawyer, architect, civil engineer, accountant etc...
unless they have a college degree
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#309All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…
Few hours a week? How would anyone, other than students, make that work?
Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, other than the minor hassle that they need to know how to issue a W2 and get enrolled for workers comp insurance and pay their estimated taxes for them. None are super hard, but they are barriers for people who aren't used to hiring people, which is the case for I think a lot of self-employed people. I only finally bothered to learn how to do it all last year when I needed some extra help with projects for my c…
This, 100% this. It makes the move from a single person company to a 2 person company terrifyingly complex, particularly for those of us without a background in business. It’s a literal chilling action on small business.
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