Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#301

Post by kragen » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:18 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #262

kragen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Levandowski didn't invent everything he "stole", but this is not significant from the point of view of legal precedent — whether you write code at work or your coworker writes the code, the law considers it to belong to your employer — and some of the cases I mentioned above also included the departure of executives, not just engineers. (Edited to clarify and correct spelling.)

Previously you dismissed law as zero sum, but here you appeal to it to bolster a part of your argument, thereby attributing value to it. Regardless of some of it's ugliness end excesses, if it's a system that can help steer a course through difficult situations regarding the rules of society then it is adding value.

I wasn't dismissing law as zero sum. Salary negotiation is zero-sum too; that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. But you shouldn't organize your career around it.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#302

Post by kragen » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:19 AM UTC

khuey wrote: post #220

ryanmercer wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. And reverse engineering, for example - IBM PC compatible via Corona Data Systems, Eagle Computer and Handwell Corporation - VTech clones of the Apple II ROMs for the Laser 128

Reverse engineering is a) legal if done properly and b) not even possible here since Waymo's cars aren't for sale.

What is legal today may not be tomorrow.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#303

Post by dllthomas » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:23 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #124

pcwalton wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this movement toward resolving such conflicts in the courts, instead of by companies competing to out-innovate one another, is very troubling. A lot of the things you cite were actually fought out in the courts. Motorola sued MOS Technology [1]. AMD and Intel have been in constant legal battles since their inception. The complicated question of Unix ownership started the famous SCO-Linux litigation. This isn't a…

Do you think MOStek would have been able to survive in today's legal environment? I don't think so, and that's what worries me. The SCO-Linux litigation wasn't complicated. It was just fraud on SCO's part, under copyright law that was well-established at the time. With the Google/Oracle precedent in place, SCO would probably win. I agree that Levandowski, like weev, is profoundly unsympathetic, but we can't let that…

As someone who grew up in Santa Cruz with parents and friends working in tech, I feel the need to point out that the "SCO" involved in the lawsuit wasn't the same people as the "SCO" that developed the tech - the rights to the name and the software were purchased by Caldera after (it seems, although I'm less confident about this part) all that was left was at Caldera were the lawyers and MBAs.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#304

Post by kps » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:32 AM UTC

khazhou wrote: post #264

I am going to admit out loud something that I suspect many people here also feel: I am envious of Anthony Levandowski Not his unscrupulous behavior, theft, and all that. But rather the fact that his confidence, swagger, and the ability to talk to Thrun and Larry and Sergei and Travis as equals (or as inferiors, actually, in this technical domain) gave people such a high impression that they bestowed him with $centi-m…

> they bestowed him with $centi-million bonuses.

Point of order: ‘centi‐’ is one hundredth. Even I've had $centi-million bonuses.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#305

Post by kenneth » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

khazhou wrote: post #268

bob33212 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not me, totally fine if I never have 2000 people working for me.

Oh I know, me neither. But I've been denied headcount several times. I don't want 2000, but envy the magical ability to get at least a bigger number. Unfortunately, time and again I've seen that the person who grows that big team, etc, is an unqualified idiot asshole. Good guys don't frequently win.

Nice guys finish last is a saying that rings true in multiple fields.

It's also entirely within anyone's control to realize that and act accordingly.

I'm less of a nice guy these days, and my life is better for it. Though I try to ultimately be very nice to the people I care about.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#306

Post by kenneth » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

DeonPenny wrote: post #253

fortran77 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he's innocent?

FBI has a 93% conviction rate. He may be but hes going down.

The FBI doesn't have a conviction rate because they do not prosecute cases. The Department of Justice might have a 93% conviction rate, perhaps.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#307

Post by mikejb » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #242

This is Google harassing him. They can't sue him in a civil suit, because, as a Google employee, Google made him sign an arbitration agreement. There's already been an arbitration between him and Google, there was some settlement, and Google is now barred from suing him.

The judge from the Google vs. Uber litigation referred the case to the US attorney. Looks like they found enough evidence to charge him. Not sure how Google is involved in this "harassment".

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#308

Post by m0zg » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

So I've been reading about this dude, and apparently he started _several_ technology companies _while working at Google_, and sold a couple of them back to Google. Clearly his Google employment contract terms weren't the same as mine. In fact "normal" employees would be fired the same day for some of the things he did even before he copied off a bunch of Google IP.

I kind of wonder what's so special about the guy that Google wanted him so bad that they let him basically write his own employment contract, allowed him to have huge conflicts of interest, and then also paid like tens of millions in bonuses per year.

I also wonder what else he wrote into that employment contract of his. You can charge anybody with anything, doesn't mean it'll stick.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#309

Post by tejuis » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

DeonPenny wrote: post #251

lordlaser9 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers and investors provide pathways to the market that allow engineers to build things that have actual value. The idea that engineers like you and I hold all of the tools and training to "create wealth" is too dismissive of those professions.

As a engineer who moved to the "other side" I used to think that now I understand how easy engineers have it.

Welcome back...

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#310

Post by smarks » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 4:59 AM UTC

kps wrote: post #304

khazhou wrote: post #264

I am going to admit out loud something that I suspect many people here also feel: I am envious of Anthony Levandowski Not his unscrupulous behavior, theft, and all that. But rather the fact that his confidence, swagger, and the ability to talk to Thrun and Larry and Sergei and Travis as equals (or as inferiors, actually, in this technical domain) gave people such a high impression that they bestowed him with $centi-m…

> they bestowed him with $centi-million bonuses. Point of order: ‘centi‐’ is one hundred th . Even I've had $centi-million bonuses.

No. “Centum” means one hundred. Of course, the SI prefix “centi-” does mean one hundredth, but “cent-“ can mean one hundred in other contexts. Consider a century is 100 years, a centurion commands 100 men, etc.