Google's Project Dragonfly 'Terminated' in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Google's Project Dragonfly 'Terminated' in China

#301

Post by __sy__ » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 5:11 AM UTC

gdy wrote: post #296

__sy__ wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would stop arguing that democracy and lifting millions out of poverty are mutually exclusive. They're not. Taiwan. South Korea. Japan. Though the first 2 were fairly authoritarian in the 1950s, they all progressively marched toward democracy. CCP is taking China the other way. Meanwhile India, which is the CCP's favorite parrot for justifying their means, actually has lifted out of abject poverty just a…

That is a straw man. The point is that democracy doesn't automatically mean economic growth and the best example falls short of China's success. In case of China, CCP's policies worked spectacularly well and you need a reason that outweighs economic growth to wish for its demise. "just about as many" The second link specifically says that it is not so.

Sorry, you are correct; what I had in mind and should have written was more along the lines of "within the same order of magnitude." I'm guessing/hoping India will be caught up by 2035-2040. Anyways, I'm not denying that there are benefits to top-down, non-democratic planning in the early stages of economic development. Again Taiwan, and its use of eminent domain in the 1970s, 80s. But I don't think long-term it leads to the most stable & innovative society. Last but not least, I don't agree with your assertion that the "best democratic examples have fallen short of China's success." How are we measuring that? GPD per capita? Life expectancy? General happiness? Anecdotally, I've spent enough time in the PRC these past few years to tell you that on what I'd consider all the relevant dimensions, Taiwan, Japan, or South Korea respectively just crush the average quality of life & wealth levels you get in China's Tier 1 cities today.

Re: Google's Project Dragonfly 'Terminated' in China

#302

Post by gdy » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 8:50 PM UTC

infamia wrote: post #300

gdy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in the same vein you need to prove that democracy is responsible for Hong Kong's success.

I said that Hong Kong avoided totalitarianism and is an much larger success story than mainland China (both of which are objectively true). I never claimed that democracy is responsible for Hong Kong's success.

So why do you say "You need to prove that China's totalitarian policies are A) responsible for the growth"?

Re: Google's Project Dragonfly 'Terminated' in China

#303

Post by gdy » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

__sy__ wrote: post #301

gdy wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a straw man. The point is that democracy doesn't automatically mean economic growth and the best example falls short of China's success. In case of China, CCP's policies worked spectacularly well and you need a reason that outweighs economic growth to wish for its demise. "just about as many" The second link specifically says that it is not so.

Sorry, you are correct; what I had in mind and should have written was more along the lines of "within the same order of magnitude." I'm guessing/hoping India will be caught up by 2035-2040. Anyways, I'm not denying that there are benefits to top-down, non-democratic planning in the early stages of economic development. Again Taiwan, and its use of eminent domain in the 1970s, 80s. But I don't think long-term it lead…

"I don't agree with your assertion" I meant the reduction of extreme poverty in China vs. India.

Re: Google's Project Dragonfly 'Terminated' in China

#304

Post by vatueil » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

Kaiyou wrote: post #283

vatueil wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would just move the ball into GCHQ or DGSE's court.

I said it would be a start, not a final solution.

The start of what? There's no reason to assume non-Europeans would prefer British, French, or EU jurisdiction over the current situation.

Re: Google's Project Dragonfly 'Terminated' in China

#305

Post by papln » Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

denzil_correa wrote: post #228

papln wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the judgment without facts? The seminars cited Muslim biographies, no? Surely telling people what's in the Quran can't be considered anti-Muslim incitement, or else every imam and mosque would be guilty. > The courts felt it was an intentional move meant to rile up participants and disturb peace. Are you saying that the seminars caused anti-Muslim violence? Were there incidents reported that made the connect…

All answers to your questions are in the EHCR judgment. The court makes a distinction between child marriage and paedophilia. https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#%7B%22itemid%22:%5B%22002-121... > Are you saying that the seminars caused anti-Muslim violence? Were there incidents reported that made the connection? I was pretty clear on what I said. I repeat - The courts (not me) felt it was an intentional move meant to ril…

That link vindicates the news coverage, that the court found that repeating true facts about child rape is illegal defamation, because marrying her or also having sex with adults justifies the rape.

The case appears to turn on the claim that "having sexual interest in children" is not paedophilia as long as there is also sexual interest in non-children, or, in other words, that the actual defamation was an implied claim that Muhammad did not have a sexual interest in adults.

> In their opinion, by accusing Muhammad of paedophilia, the applicant had merely sought to defame him, without providing evidence that his primary sexual interest in Aisha had been her not yet having reached puberty or that his other wives or concubines had been similarly young. In particular, the applicant had disregarded the fact that the marriage with Aisha had continued until the Prophet’s death, when she had already turned eighteen and had therefore passed the age of puberty.

This is the same anti-girl (and I emphasize "girl", not "woman") logic that refuses to punish rapists like the drivers' ed teacher in italy who raped a girl student who was wearing jeans without underwear, on the basis of her clothing.