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How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

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Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#301

Post by simonebrunozzi »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #108
risyachka wrote: post #104

Airbnb is not evil. Tourists that don't care or follow the rules are. Without Airbnb, they will bring the same problems just to other people in other places. Many hotels do charge unjustified amounts of money, so I am personally happy there is an option to pay reasonable money for good service. Also, it's not like hotels don't have their share of problems. Many hotels in many countries offer you pure garbage when you…

Now for the counterargument: Airbnb is evil, because it facilitates and profits from rule and lawbreaking, up to and including turning whole apartment buildings into pirate hotels, while spinning the tale that it's all about individuals occasionally renting out their primary place of residence for a couple of days. It's evil because while occasional random temporary sublets aren't a problem, they become a problem whe…

Tragedy of the commons, all over again.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#302

Post by ineedasername »

BurningFrog wrote: post #196
ineedasername wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/search?q=social+contract Basically it's the understanding that we're all in this together and we shouldn't mess things in some way for other people purely for our own benefit. Think of it as avoiding negative-sum situations. More formally: an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protectio…

It's also something no one ever signed, and is a concept loved only by those benefiting from the current order.

The current order? I think you're overthinking things here. Were talking about social etiquette that says you should not leave your messes for other people to clean up.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#303

Post by xtiansimon »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #131
_petronius wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this, and I think there is an interesting generalisation that can be pulled out of it: something’s which are fine (harmless, neutral, or even good) at a small individual scale become problematic or terrible when done at the scale that modern software and the internet can provide. VRBO isn’t inherently bad, hijacking VRBO into a stealth hotel business and breaking the social contract of residential neighb…

Exactly. And what's extra sad here is that once a company like Uber or AirBnB gains large-scale success, there are only two things that happen. Some places accept it and eat the social externalities. Others try to ban the practice, but legislation is expensive, enforcement is expensive, and it also hurts the society by making illegal what was previously just fine on a small scale. I think societies need to learn to r…

>> “I think societies need to learn to recognize this pattern ASAP, because the best outcome is nipping such companies in the bud, before they grow and leave only two bad options on the table..”

Who are you specificities referring to when you say ‘societies’? Government? Consumers?

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#304

Post by impendia »

Symbiote wrote: post #237
impendia wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly believe you have the right to want those things. And moreover, there are noise ordinances and related laws, and I do believe those should be enforced. But, I also believe that new people coming into that kind of environment should be allowed to. People step on each other's toes, and it can be annoying. But I still don't believe that people have the right to keep other people out.

How do I get a noise ordinance enforced, when the noise is 2 minutes of people shouting and clattering luggage down the stairs at 4am on Monday, to get their cheap Ryanair flight home? My neighbours are much more careful at 4am, and each might only leave like this a couple of times a year. An apartment on AirBnB has this pretty much every week.

> How do I get a noise ordinance enforced

You don't of course. Anyone shouting at 4am is being exceedingly rude; if there's any social contract in place, then they certainly aren't honoring their end of it.

Under these circumstances, I certainly wouldn't blame you for advocating to your municipal government that they crack down on AirBnBs. I would just hope that that government try to find some way to simultaneously keep the needs of visitors in mind. Maybe there is not a true win-win scenario here, but the status quo doesn't seem to be working well for anyone.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#305

Post by impendia »

okmokmz wrote: post #217
impendia wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find the "social contract" to be too biased in favor of homeowners. They control municipal governments and hence zoning laws. If these homeowners decide that they don't want to see visitors in their neighborhoods, they can decide they don't have to. So, in effect, this "contract" was unilaterally imposed by one party to it. I noticed this particularly in Princeton, NJ. A cute, small, and overly expensiv…

>Personally, I find the "social contract" to be too biased in favor of homeowners. They control municipal governments and hence zoning laws. If these homeowners decide that they don't want to see visitors in their neighborhoods, they can decide they don't have to. So, in effect, this "contract" was unilaterally imposed by one party to it. Are you implying that tourists/visitors/non-locals should have as much say in l…

> Are you implying that tourists/visitors/non-locals should have as much say in local rules/policies/etc as the people that actually own property and live in those locations?

As much? No. (However, I do strongly believe that locals who rent should have as much say; often their interests are not aligned with those of homeowners.)

I agree that in some cases, such as locations with huge numbers of tourists where local populations are being driven out, drastic measures are required.

In general, personally, I would favor a compromise involving a lot more regulation (e.g. of AirBnBs in apartment buildings) on the one hand, and making it easier to operate hotels on the other. I support homeowners who don't want informal hotels to be operated out of their apartment buildings; less so, homeowners who don't want hotels (whether formal or not) to be opened anywhere nearby.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#306

Post by impendia »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #248
impendia wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly believe you have the right to want those things. And moreover, there are noise ordinances and related laws, and I do believe those should be enforced. But, I also believe that new people coming into that kind of environment should be allowed to. People step on each other's toes, and it can be annoying. But I still don't believe that people have the right to keep other people out.

> And moreover, there are noise ordinances and related laws, and I do believe those should be enforced. They generally are. But it's not practical to enforce them in a condition of a lot of short-term rentals, where people rotate on a weekly basis. Before AirBnB, that might not have been a problem, but now that's trivially easy to become a pirate hotel anywhere in the world, people are pushing to ban such rentals in…

> it's the only way to make the problem go away.

You could be right. I would like to think that there is some option which would make everyone more-or-less happy, but it could be that I'm being too optimistic.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#307

Post by hkai »

snarf21 wrote: post #171
TeMPOraL wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now for the counterargument: Airbnb is evil, because it facilitates and profits from rule and lawbreaking, up to and including turning whole apartment buildings into pirate hotels, while spinning the tale that it's all about individuals occasionally renting out their primary place of residence for a couple of days. It's evil because while occasional random temporary sublets aren't a problem, they become a problem whe…

There is also the consequence of removing rental inventory from residents of that city because renting to tourists is more profitable if you don't have to meet any of the other conditions of running a legal hotel.

If renting out to anyone is profitable and there is suddenly more demand for housing, doesn't it encourage construction of new housing?

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#308

Post by jerzyt »

I find it ironic that someone so concerned about hidden cameras is advocating hack attacks on the host's network. I run an Airbnb, no cameras, not even on the door. The only sensor I have is on the Nest thermostat to automatically turn off heating when no one is present. I expect the courtesy of my network not being hacked into by some wannabe hacker.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#309

Post by ryanmarsh »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #280
ryanmarsh wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can’t see the harm in a few companies owning the vast majority of hotel rooms (under many brands) then I don’t know how we can have a productive discussion about this. Having personally made “status” in the various hotel cabal loyalty programs, and having used AirBnb/VRBO/HomeAway/etc... many many times as well. I say with confidence that the hotel chains have negative externalities that exceed those of the va…

> If you can’t see the harm in a few companies owning the vast majority of hotel rooms (under many brands) then I don’t know how we can have a productive discussion about this. I can see harm in it. But the solution isn't enabling yet another single company to expand and capture even more of the hospitality market. > I say with confidence that the hotel chains have negative externalities that exceed those of the vari…

1. Profits are not retained by the local community

2. Wages are low

3. Architectural blight/reduces walk-ability

AirBnb (of whom I’ve been very critical in the past)

1. Encourages property ownership and wealth building amongst the middle class

2. Enables the middle class to extract the maximum value from their assets

3. Offers a better product at a lower price

4. Keeps profits local

Everyone assumes the hotels are complying with all local statues and are behaving in good faith just because they pay occupancy taxes and carry insurance. Bizarre.

Local city councils can and do enact laws for short term rentals and the short term rental companies have whole departments of developers who program those laws into the system. If those laws are not being followed then the justice department should do its job.

Re: How to Find Hidden Cameras in Your Airbnb

#310

Post by Fins »

nerdponx wrote: post #38
pcdoodle wrote: post #15

How to be extra paranoid brought to you by Hotel Industry Fear Porn (tm).

If an article comes out this year about hidden cameras in hotel rooms, scanning for brands/logos and/or running facial recognition for law enforcement, I won't be shocked.

Yeah, and trhey also run child prostitution rings out of their evil hotel pizza parlors.

Lengths to which the SV crowd would go to pretend that it is not absolutely, thoroughly, and irredeemably morally bankrupt are truly scary...

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