Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

city-journal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 1001 posts

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#301

Post by vict00ms »

moorhosj wrote: post #248
brianmc21 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel as though having children will make a lot of people very happy. But there is also a significant part(>1%) of the population that would be miserable. I believe a lot of the unhappiness is often from someone who was pressured into a choice they didn't critically think about or didn't want but caved in. Even if the pool of people is small the experience could be quite negative. Where as all the people who always…

==I took care of my brother and sisters a lot as a child and it made it very clear that I never wanted children.== Being a parent is not the same as taking care of your siblings. Using the experience of one to justify your decisions in another is short-sighted. How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

I've heard a lot of parents say something along those lines, though usually softened a bit: "I love my kids but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have had them."

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#302

Post by brianmc21 »

moorhosj wrote: post #248
brianmc21 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel as though having children will make a lot of people very happy. But there is also a significant part(>1%) of the population that would be miserable. I believe a lot of the unhappiness is often from someone who was pressured into a choice they didn't critically think about or didn't want but caved in. Even if the pool of people is small the experience could be quite negative. Where as all the people who always…

==I took care of my brother and sisters a lot as a child and it made it very clear that I never wanted children.== Being a parent is not the same as taking care of your siblings. Using the experience of one to justify your decisions in another is short-sighted. How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

Plenty, my wife is a nurse and plenty of the women explain how they had one and then just never wanted another one after because of regret. The nurse closer to her age straight up says it. I got plenty of warnings from coworkers about having children and most of their wives pick up most of the slack. If you are gushing about your kids no one is going to open up about a taboo subject like that.

That is just one of the many reasons I don't want kids. I have plenty of functional health issues that make keeping on weight a chore never mind a pain free day and yet again that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#303

Post by dpoochieni »

patentatt wrote: post #126
nroah wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad times we live in that you have to say it twice that you don't oppose feminism, otherwise you know your comment will get flagged, which means your opinion will simply be hidden away. That is the state of the debate, if we can even call it a debate.

Can you define what you see as the debate here?

Can you define what you see as the closed argument here?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#304

Post by merpnderp »

40acres wrote: post #199
residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

I heard someone describe this as the "capstone" vs "conerstone" model. Previous generations got married and had kids much earlier, and built their lives off of that cornerstone. When it comes to me personally and my peers, we see marriage and children more as a capstone -- something to be done once our student loan is paid, or when we're ready to put a down payment on a house, when we get that promotion, etc.

I'm still in awe that starting off your life with massive student loans is a thing. This is almost always a very poor decision as there are tons of cheap regional schools where a part time job can mostly get you through school with very little debt. And yet we've got a generation of new adults starting life under crushing debt that purchased them something of dubious value (an expensive degree versus a cheap one). My regional university had a decent CS program and tuition was $3k/year.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#305

Post by RankingMember »

ecoled_ame wrote: post #240
jniedrauer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing a child into the world to increase my own personal happiness, when nothing else I could do has such a direct and massive climate impact, is not something I can justify personally. Not to mention, my child would have to live to see the impacts of climate change. There is coming a point (it has already passed, in my opinion), where we can no longer justify our purpose for existence as "creating more humans."

Seriously. The only reason I could justify having kids would be if I looked around, thought to myself "gee, there seems to be a shortage of people", and then I would replicate. Justifying replication for the sake of one's happiness is such a logical folly that it makes me die inside.

On that note, how funny is it to hear people discuss "invasive species" and how they need to be culled while our numbers are such that we're able to significantly (negatively) impact our planet in the span of 100 years.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#306

Post by antisthenes »

xenospn wrote: post #129
residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

Leaving aside the fact that you have not substantiated your claim, it could very well be that having kids in America makes you miserable, because the safety net is gutted or non-existent.

There is almost no maternal/paternal leave, health care costs are astronomical, so are child care costs, which are almost necessary, because the normal multi-generational family has been systematically destroyed over the last half-century, both with advertising and economic pressure. Not to mention the lack of compromising skills in both partners, which has been exacerbated by identity politics.

So yes, in context, maybe having kids is miserable*

*with caveats and not everywhere.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#307

Post by irrational »

sdegutis wrote: post #264
40acres wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard someone describe this as the "capstone" vs "conerstone" model. Previous generations got married and had kids much earlier, and built their lives off of that cornerstone. When it comes to me personally and my peers, we see marriage and children more as a capstone -- something to be done once our student loan is paid, or when we're ready to put a down payment on a house, when we get that promotion, etc.

I know two sisters who each got married. The older one practiced worldly prudence, courted during high school, got engaged at beginning of college, and waited almost a decade until after her fiancé graduated before they got married and started to have children. But now he can't get a job with his degree (pharmacist), she works at some retail job as a manager, and the whole family lives with her parents. He's in >$100…

How is living at home with your parents an example of prudence?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#308

Post by turk73 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #170
KevinS626 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easier to sell to lonely individuals than a satisfied family. Hence all the crazy pressure to work more and be less... human.

You sure? People with families tend to spend more money (out of necessity). It's easier for people without kids to save up more money.

I'm not so sure--when my kids were infants we stayed home instead of going out. We took fewer trips. Kids aren't that expensive at that age. Diapers and formula, sure, but compared to what a teenager costs? You can save up a lot of cash during the little kid years if you're not doing daycare.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#310

Post by rc_hadoken »

I still just don't find the appeal of married family life yet. Maybe itll change but if it doesn't I dont care. My creative output and need to learn have so far been part of a journey I find near orgasmic in enjoyment when I look back on how far I've come. Yes I'm an introvert but not the shy kind just the kind that needs two hours alone for every hour with people.
Post reply on HN