Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

resumeskills.us

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 810 posts

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#301

Post by revvx »

pm90 wrote: post #259
Scarblac wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're talking about someone who already has a job, and the new company wants to entice away from that. What kind of negotiating tactic is it to start at 60% of current salary?

Well, the OP mentioned that the recruiter thought the candidate was lying which is why they low-balled. So that explains the logic at least. They're not stupid, but they don't trust candidates I guess. Which is a whole different thing.

Yeah, the recruiter told me the whole hiring team thought I was bullshitting about my salary.

It was a problematic company from the get go. I was cold called and the recruiter was very insistent. Their engineers were very unprofessional during the technical interview and complained A LOT about technical debt left by past co-workers during the interview.

Now, when I tell recruiters my minimum salary I refer recruiters to Glassdoor, just in case they doubt me.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#302

Post by jpdb »

d4mi3n wrote: post #254
peteradio wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are supposed to lie to inflate your salary even more? So rather than offer of 60% current pay they'd be offering 30% wink wink current pay. I hope you no longer communicate with that recruiter.

This is common practice, but it’s playing into a bad power dynamic where the employer is trying to anchor the negotiation to a number. It’s a predatory question, and giving a bullshit answer to a bullshit question is a reasonable response. As I mentioned in another comment, I personally prefer just setting a salary range I’d be willing to accept. I walk away if given an offer below that range. It gives me the initiat…

So why not just tell them a number, because the company is going to go for the lowest in the range anyways?

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#303

Post by andrei_says_ »

hpcjoe wrote: post #210
d4mi3n wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rule number 1, IMO, never discuss salary. I find listing your salary requirements before starting a process weeds out a lot of silly interviews. If you know your worth and have a goal for your salary, it is the most effective way I know to avoid dumb offers.

My favorite was something that happened 2+ years ago. I had closed down my business, and was speaking with folks, including a well funded startup in Milpitas area. I was in the area for a different interview, and spent the evening before that interview with this startup. I knew the CEO from a previous effort. After much discussion, I thought they had something interesting, though I was hard pressed to find real diffe…

I like mentally replacing “stock” with “lottery tickets”.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#304

Post by flyinglizard »

d4mi3n wrote: post #104
revvx wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thing happen to me a couple times. Long and tiring process. Blackboard, make a project, lots of dirty laundry about "long gone incompetent developers" that made the current system a giant mess. Lots of red flags but lots of promises including a large maximum salary, including bonuses and stock options. The final offer, however, was 60% of my current pay. Lower than the average for someone with my exper…

Rule number 1, IMO, never discuss salary. I find listing your salary requirements before starting a process weeds out a lot of silly interviews. If you know your worth and have a goal for your salary, it is the most effective way I know to avoid dumb offers.

It's not that straight forward, especially if you charge on the high end. Without them getting to know you and your benefits, a high price up front would just drive them away. If you're shooting for mid market rate, it's obviously different; but if you're selling them on your value, that value needs to be demonstrated before money talks.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#305

Post by ickyforce »

Aloha wrote: post #82
loteck wrote: post #40

As an employee, it is valuable to me that my company will not hire someone who doesn't think our business does something important ("get over yourselves, you're not curing cancer"), or who thinks the right way to ask business decision questions is to ask if "you're morons", or who has a problem with the company asking very basic probing questions, such as confirming you've thought through the challenge of changing fr…

I so dislike the ball-gargling exercise of "why do you want to work here?" It's often a "well, I need a job, you're hiring, and what you guys are doing looks at least marginally interesting to me" - I ought not need to find whatever product/service/market they're doing/in inspiring - I should just want to do it for the pay offered.

I've noticed that I was interpreting the question incorrectly. In the past I thought it was "why did you chose this company over all others?". But if you think of it as "what aspects of our company do you find interesting?" it becomes a quite regular question which I can easily answer honestly.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#306

Post by rubicon33 »

_57jb wrote: post #300
zaroth wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to teach “everyone” to code is like teaching everyone to draw in high school art classes. It gives a lot of people exposure to what it means to code/draw, the fundamental steps of coding/drawing but doesn’t increase the supply of coders/artists in the world to the point where the skilled artists/programmers become commonplace.

I think you are making the mistake that enterprises who employ thousands of developers are looking for quality over butts in seats.

Yup. And they're missing the point that this isn't 1985 anymore. A high school student with a week of JavaScript and HTML could write AirBnB. Or at least, JavaScript and similar languages make programming much, much easier (and hence the barrier to entry much easier).

As coding difficulty drops, and supply increases, the net effect will be a much higher demand for jobs than supply. And that's exactly where big tech wants it to be.

edit: here comes the javascript developer downvotes.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#307

Post by revvx »

marcosdumay wrote: post #232
pathseeker wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They promise that amount up front, and then renege? "we can give X" is not a promise to give X.

How is it not a promise? I fail to imagine it being said in a way that isn't one.

It is a verbal promise, not a contract. They just broke it.

They were unprofessional.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#308

Post by JauntTrooper »

abawany wrote: post #280
d4mi3n wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rule number 1, IMO, never discuss salary. I find listing your salary requirements before starting a process weeds out a lot of silly interviews. If you know your worth and have a goal for your salary, it is the most effective way I know to avoid dumb offers.

To add to the 'sucker' anecdote, when I was young and stupid (at least I am not young anymore), I was contacted by a NYC recruiter looking to hire for Bloomberg. Here was his tack to extract salary information: "being a financial company, it is required for us to know what you currently make." On this aspect, I think I know better now, hopefully.

That's illegal now in NYC.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#309

Post by rdiddly »

pathseeker wrote: post #215
mcv wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They promise that amount up front, and then renege? That's not even deceitful, that's just intentionally wasting your time. I would send them an invoice for the time spent on the interview. What a bizarre way to run a business.

>They promise that amount up front, and then renege? "we can give X" is not a promise to give X.

Oh yeah people love that. They're usually so thankful to have been taught a lesson about this technicality that they not only don't mind having been told the wrong thing, they instantly become loyal to that person for life. Immense profit follows.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#310

Post by soneca »

ativzzz wrote: post #275
soneca wrote: post #159

I am at the other side of the spectre, I have less than 2 years of experience, but I have the same feeling that there's no shortage, just unnecessary friction. I am moving to LA from Brazil next month. I am a self-taught frontend developer. I am 39 years old, but still a junior as I changed careers less than two years ago. I participated in two process with the standard remote technical interview solving a problem li…

Every interaction with other humans that can have an outcome that you are trying to pursue (like getting a job) is best viewed as a game. You can choose not to play the game, which significantly reduces your chances and opportunities Or choose a different game, like > I will meet some entrepreneurial types with promising business models that value what I can do well which is still a game, but a game you are willing t…

Indeed, I do not disagree with anything you said
Post reply on HN