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ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

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Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between mob justice and lawful justice is government. Declaration of war is the exclusive right of the government. How can random citizens declaring war be any less than incitement of violence? Self defense is legally defined. It's not about a general fear of future outcomes. It's about preventing immediate physical harm. If you're urgently telling people to defend themselves from someone not even in t…

In a democracy, random citizens can take over the government by winning elections. So where do you draw the line - if someone were to perceive an external threat where others were unwilling to speak up, and campaigned for election on that basis, would they get locked up? You'd make it so a government that was insufficiently prioritising self defence couldn't self correct. This isn't a theoretical concern. Winston Chu…

An interesting point and well made.

However, I think there is a distinction between war as a political platform, and incitement of violence. Even when Churchill campaigned for war, he campaigned for the United Kingdom to wage war. He was calling for something that is legal.

The people who inspire the terrorists are not just campaigning for lawful war. They are inciting the masses to commit violence against civilians.

We should be able to differentiate Churchill and Bin Laden.

When it comes down to it, there will always be a situation in which a law makes the right thing illegal. Drunk driving a dying person to the hospital in an emergency is illegal but it's not always wrong. I think laws should aim to maximize benefit and minimize harm rather than stay ideologically pure.

In that light I think in this day and age, it's much more important to disable the ISISs, the KKKs, and other inciters, than it is to enable the Churchills. It's a value judgment here, but how many Churchills are we expecting in the next 100 years? Because terrorists are here right now.

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#302
post #88

I just checked, and only three of the thirteen "blocked" sites are not working. Of those eztv.is appears to have a DNS problem (no A record, only an SOA record pointing at a parking address of the registrar), and traceroutes archive.is and archive.fo get as far as an address in the Netherlands, so I don't think they're blocked in NZ. ISP is 2degrees, Cloudflare DNS. On a side-note, I'm probably now on some watch list…

What I'm finding somewhat interesting is that Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) appears to be sinkholing that DNS request for me (I'm currently inside Australia - 127.0.0.3 is being returned) whereas Google (8.8.8.8) does not (51.38.113.224 returned). Doesn't look like it's just me either - ViewDNS [1] is currently showing 'www.archive.is' returning 127.0.0.3 from Sydney. [1] https://viewdns.info/propagation/?domain=www.archive.i…

CloudFlare UK is returning the same results. This is not good.

Edit: It is a known misconfiguration at archive.is nameservers: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/archive-is-error-1001/182...

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#303
post #88

I just checked, and only three of the thirteen "blocked" sites are not working. Of those eztv.is appears to have a DNS problem (no A record, only an SOA record pointing at a parking address of the registrar), and traceroutes archive.is and archive.fo get as far as an address in the Netherlands, so I don't think they're blocked in NZ. ISP is 2degrees, Cloudflare DNS. On a side-note, I'm probably now on some watch list…

What I'm finding somewhat interesting is that Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) appears to be sinkholing that DNS request for me (I'm currently inside Australia - 127.0.0.3 is being returned) whereas Google (8.8.8.8) does not (51.38.113.224 returned). Doesn't look like it's just me either - ViewDNS [1] is currently showing 'www.archive.is' returning 127.0.0.3 from Sydney. [1] https://viewdns.info/propagation/?domain=www.archive.i…

archive.is intentionally returns the wrong result to us:

https://community.cloudflare.com/t/archive-is-error-1001/182...

We've asked them, repeatedly, to stop doing this. They refuse. It's bizarre.

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NZer's weren't stock piling guns to defend themselves with so your first argument just isn't valid to begin with. This isn't a government ordered blocking. NZ does have a govt blacklist but it isn't enforced, ISP's opt into it. My ISP didn't block anything. No one needs to read that manifesto to debate far right fascism.

One is not a stockpile under any reasonable definition. Your government doesn't allow the ownership of guns for self-defense but so far it doesn't outright prohibit them from being used that way.

You are correct. To quote the arms code - https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/... (page 41)

"Citizens are justified in using force in self-defence in certain situations. The force that is justified will depend on the circumstances of the particular case. Every person is criminally responsible for any excessive use of force against another person.

A firearm is a lethal weapon. To justify the discharge of a firearm at another person the user must hold a honest belief that they or someone else is at imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm.

Discharge of a firearm at another person will result in a Police investigation and what ever the consequences of the incident you may face serious criminal charges."

It's worth keeping in mind that we still have guns, it's just a certain type of gun that's getting banned. And it's worked well in Aus so far.

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is not a stockpile under any reasonable definition. Your government doesn't allow the ownership of guns for self-defense but so far it doesn't outright prohibit them from being used that way.

You are correct. To quote the arms code - https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/... (page 41) "Citizens are justified in using force in self-defence in certain situations. The force that is justified will depend on the circumstances of the particular case. Every person is criminally responsible for any excessive use of force against another person. A firearm is a lethal weapon. To justify the di…

Certain types of gun. It's not just one type being banned.
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