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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#301

Post by [deleted] »

Ultramanoid wrote: post #17
hbarka wrote: post #7

Why hasn’t Amazon, Costco, or Walmart used their clout to effect a positive change? Have you seen all the plastic and unnecessary packaging in the goods they sell. The size of the packaging relative to the actual product is so ridiculous sometimes.

I routinely reply on Amazon's feedback that packaging was clearly excessive whenever I am given the change to do so. To receive a micro SD card in (1) a plastic container, inside a (2) cardboard container, inside an (3) A4 Amazon cardboard envelope is bordering criminal.

[deleted]

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#302

Post by imhoguy »

01100011 wrote: post #13
jl2718 wrote: post #4

Third grade me believed that my recycling got recycled. But it didn’t. We paid extra taxes for corrupt deals to get it dumped in the ocean. That was my plastic that killed the whale. Why did they lie to me? I did always wonder where all the recycling plants were. Would it really have been worse if we had put it in the landfill?

Did your plastic really end up in the ocean? I'm guessing most of my plastic went to a landfill to be dealt with later or was shipped to a reprocessing facility. I understand your western guilt, but I'm guessing most of the plastic comes from places that aren't economically able to deal with their waste streams properly.

I am going to believe plastic is "accidentally" dumped into oceans same as it is "accidentally" burned on landfills: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/8p7wnr/major_danger...

But on statistics everything is fine for some.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#303

Post by lm28469 »

seanwilson wrote: post #277
lm28469 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our bodies evolved to make us omnivores, I don't see why we should restrain ourselves to such extent. What we need is moderation and sustainable means of production. This is clearly misaligned with our current lifestyles though. [0] In a few generations we went from "meat/fish is a once in a week delicacy" to "cheap meat at every single meal" (see the so called "meat lovers" thinking they're entitled to 2 pounds of b…

> Our bodies evolved to make us omnivores, I don't see why we should restrain ourselves to such extent. How is this not just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy ? > What we need is moderation and sustainable means of production. This is clearly misaligned with our current lifestyles though. [0] > In a few generations we went from "meat/fish is a once in a week delicacy" to "cheap meat at every single m…

> How is this not just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy?

> The naturalistic fallacy is the idea that what is found in nature is good.

My phrasing wasn't the best, but I'm not taking any moral ("what is good") stands here.

If we can solve all the issues with moderate and sustainable meat/fish/eggs/dairy consumption, or even vegetarianism, I fail to see the appeal going the extra mile and going full vegan (unless we go into a moral argument but I don't think it's the point here), knowing that it most likely requires closer monitoring for deficiency. I might be wrong, but to me it seems to be the path of least resistance.

I don't have time to look into it longer, but typing "enough resources for vegan world" in google gives me these. Either I chose very poor keywords, or veganism isn't the messiah that'll save us all. I tend to think that moderation is the key in pretty much any domain.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/aug/16/v...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/vegani...

https://www.businessinsider.de/veganism-may-be-unsustainable...

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#304

Post by jeffdavis »

seanwilson wrote: post #224

For people saying vegan diets might not be healthy it's trivial to find information online about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_nutrition > The American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly known as the American Dietetic Association), Dietitians of Canada and the British Dietetic Association[6] state that well-planned vegan diets can meet all human nutrient requirements and are appropriate for all…

"Well-planned" is easier said than done, and requires artificial supplements (we don't have the right hardware for B12 production and plants don't have it).

I personally don't think its a good idea for children unless you really know what you are doing and monitor things closely.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#305

Post by thefounder »

cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

Stop eating fish, meat and vegetables.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#306

Post by malvosenior »

DanBC wrote: post #284
malvosenior wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree. Diet is an integral part of one’s culture. Smoking cigarettes is a needless vice mostly pushed by marketing. I think you’re greatly underestimating how important food is to some cultures. I suggest you have a conversation about this with someone from a meat eating culture. It will give you more perspective on the staying power of meat.

I think you're under-estimating the grip tobacco had on society. Smoking was very common. Between the 1940s and 1980s over 40% of the population smoked. https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table... We used to give cigarettes out in Red Cross parcels. https://www.loc.gov/resource/anrc.08956/

I know it was very popular, but 1940 was not that long ago. We're comparing it to eating meat which humans have been doing for at least tens of thousands of years. You also need to eat something, while some cultures smoke more than others, no one needs to smoke to survive.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#307

Post by magduf »

makerofspoons wrote: post #232
malvosenior wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people in the US eat meat regularly and feed it to their children. There is no way this is going to stop in one generation. There are also plenty of cultures that have meat as their staple. Can you imagine telling Mexicans to eat vegetarian tacos for instance? That simply will never happen, it's too ingrained into culture (and too delicious!).

Smoking cigarettes and cigars was also once considered a delicious and ingrained part of many cultures. It is now clear that processed and red meats cause bowel cancer, and the environmental impacts they pose are also becoming more and more clear. Just like smoking ended in a generation I can definitely see people rejecting these products in the near future. Cultures change all the time.

>Just like smoking ended in a generation

It did? Where? In what world?

Here in America, which has much lower smoking rates than many other developed nations and has indeed lowered the smoking rate a lot since ~50 years ago, there's tons of young people taking up smoking and "vaping". A bunch of my tech coworkers do.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#308

Post by Kurtz79 »

cageface wrote: post #227
overthemoon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still framed as a consumer problem rather than a regulatory problem--eat fish or don't, market participation isn't going to get you nearly as far as regulation.

Regulation is slow and difficult, particularly when there are industries with a lot of lobbying money ready to fight it. I'm all for regulation but it will be too late if we don't do anything in the meantime.

Most people are unable to discipline themselves even if it affects directly their own health (smoking, heavy drinking, lack of excercise, unheathy eating), color me skeptic if we are to rely on people willing to change their habits for the greater good.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#309

Post by mcv »

908087 wrote: post #266
mcv wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't farmed fish undo some of the advantages of eating fish? The big advantage of fishing over farmed meat is that we do not feed fish food grown on fields that could have fed people (which is a big part of the reason why meat is so economically inefficient). Fish just roam the seas and we scoop them out, with very little investment on our part. Of course the fact that fish is such a relatively efficient source of…

Unless we miraculously figure out some way to convince people to stop attempting to exponentially increase the human population, it's pretty much a sure thing that we'll strip or pollute the oceans free of food sources.

As it happens, we have figured out a way to reduce population growth: education. Educated people tend to have less kids. Countries with a highly educated population tend to have less population growth, in some cases even having a shrinking population.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#310

Post by anonuser123456 »

your-nanny wrote: post #294
dev_dull wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think blanket laws fixes it either? You need good, well thought out law free from lobbyist influence that tackle the heart of the issue. In other words, something extremely difficult to produce and often times hard to enforce. Or else you get more trash laws like making it illegal to serve water without asking in San Francisco.

you need more than laws, you need enforcement of those laws.

How do you enforce laws in international waters on foreign flagged ships?
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