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FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

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Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#301

Anyone seen any information about what's expected to happen to the kids of these lowlife scum? I'm assuming they'll be expelled, just haven't seen it actually mentioned explicitly anywhere.

They are paying full-price tuition, so probably nothing will happen as long as they continue to pay.

I went to school with a girl who’s mother pretended to be a guidance counselor and obtained a copy of the SAT test prior to the daughter taking the exam.

The daughter was accepted to Harvard, and the mother charged and convicted, but the daughter has a Harvard degree now.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different. Seriously, I was staying at the Trump hotel in Chicago (before Trump ran for president -- before I ever gave much thought about Donald Trump). Anyway, there was a looping video on the TV and she was inviting guests to stay at any one of their other Trump hotels around "North America and Canada." It was at that moment I…

And Obama once said there were 57 states... gaffes are gaffes

He’s describing a recorded marketing video. It was deliberately produced and edited to contain that specific message. Comparing that to an off the cuff error during a live discussion is disingenuous.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#303

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

No empathy. The entire system is pay to play for the social connections. If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different. I saw similar fabrications growing up as I attended one of the wealthiest high schools in the country. The top 10 of my graduating class got complete scholarships the most expensive schools in the country and the parents were willing to do anything t…

Exactly. Olivia Giannulli even outright says “I don’t really care about school, as you guys all know..."

(source: https://youtu.be/lveMkZc-NRE, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/style/olivia-jade-giannul...)

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#304
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata: In my extended family, we have some members with a fair bit of 'bread'. These family members met at a somewhat known (yet small-ish) college and really loved the place and all the memories they had there. They donated a lot of money over the years and, yes, had a building named after them. When it came time for their daughter to apply to college, the choice was obvious. However, the daughter was rejected ou…

Can you tell us the name of the college?

It's small and in the mid-west, you may have heard of it, but it's also possible you may not have. The point, for the family, was not in 'cred' but because they loved the place.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#305
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Non-profit" is literally no more than a corporate tax status. That actual charitable causes happen to be non-profit is a coincidence.

Correct. Despite this, I choose to donate to my universities because a) when its my children's turn, I want the organization to remember my name, and b) I honestly believe that education is a truly worthwhile pursuit and I want to expand access to, and quality of, education and discovery. PhDs and grad students may be a bunch of blowhards but they drive a lot of innovation.

> when its my children's turn, I want the organization to remember my name

When it's time for my children, I want the organization that will be teaching them about professional and ethical conduct in the real world to not only not be corrupt, but also demonstrably free of all prejudicial biases in the applications process.

Which is to say, I want my children to be assigned a randomized identifier and their personally identifiable information anonymized, before their application is given to an admissions officer, so that irrelevant qualifications like the amount of money parent alumni have given to the organization are not and cannot be used for an admit/no-admit decision.

I'm fine with your kid getting a 2nd-floor room in the posh dormitory, and first bite at class scheduling. You can pay for additional conveniences, but not to deny someone else an opportunity earned by their own hard work.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite understood why people donate to colleges in such a way that it is the legal entity of the university that benefits. They provide a service, and they charge money for it. The university operates as a business. I don't donate to Wal-Mart, so why would I donate to University X? Why wouldn't you instead endow a scholarship for students of your favorite college? Instead of giving cash to Wal-Mart, buy prepai…

> Why wouldn't you instead endow a scholarship for students of your favorite college? Because endowing a scholarship is setting up a charity and donating to a University (the kind anyone donates to, at any rate—no one is endowing chairs at the University of Phoenix) is giving to an existing charity; the two probably have similar tax, feeling of giving back, and status/ego benefits, but the former is more work.

The charity you set up will be perfectly aligned with your interests and values, whereas the highest paid employees of the existing "charity" are probably the president and the men's football coach, and not necessarily in that order.

As charities, universities massage their financials to make themselves look better. They set the tuition rate. They determine the scholarship amounts. They bring in dollar-denominated donations, but the actual "charity" they provide is a nebulous value for the amount of additional knowledge and education the student would have been otherwise unable to acquire without paying more out of their own pocket in tuition. The university decides what that is worth anyway. They move $50k from one pocket to another, and then say they gave away $50k worth of education.

A private scholarship charity can't play those games, because the costs of education are set by someone else.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really believe that a person with the same intelligence and drive who goes to say Stanford vs a mid tier state university will have the same outcomes in life? Unless this person has an exceptional will, this will never be the case. The kind of network that you will probably build at Stanford without noticing is vastly superior to the one at a mid tier state university. You probably personally know many people who…

You're right. But I'm more curious as to the people that can't get into Stanford and have to go to lesser schools like I did - what exactly are we to do? It's pretty clear that our outcomes are not going to be as good by any means, and it seems like political correctness limits any discussion of that.

It just means you are gonna have to initially work a bit harder, be a bit more resilient to rejection, and be a bit more creative in trying to build those networks. I.e You are going to have to force those doors to open for you.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never quite understood why people donate to colleges in such a way that it is the legal entity of the university that benefits. They provide a service, and they charge money for it. The university operates as a business. I don't donate to Wal-Mart, so why would I donate to University X? Why wouldn't you instead endow a scholarship for students of your favorite college? Instead of giving cash to Wal-Mart, buy prepai…

Because almost all universitys are NOT businesses... they are non-profits. They don't provide their services so they can make money, they make money so they can provide their services. Now, you can argue that incentives sometimes get messed up, but that is the case for ALL charities/non-profits.

Non-profits are businesses--businesses with a privileged tax status.

It is possible to set up a non-profit business such that the money that comes in goes out through different ports than the ownership outflow pipe. A typical setup for a corrupt non-profit is for managers of the business to earn above-market salaries, and to own for-profit businesses that "compete" for service contracts with the non-profit entity.

For example, Jack Grift establishes a non-profit charity for orphan children with fantods. He works the circuit and manages to fund it to the tune of $1M per year. He leases a nice office space in a building owned by Jack Grift AAA Office Space, and contracts with Jack Grift Janitorial Services to empty the trash can, and sets the charity's salary for CEO at $250k/year, and Chief Revenue Officer at $100k/year, plus a bonus of 5% of incoming donations. Jack, of course, holds both positions. He gets $250k as CEO, $150k as CRO, $100k as his own landlord, and $50k for taking out his own trash. He rolls $440k into uncapturable overhead, marketing, and fundraising efforts, and still has $10k left to supply orphans with copies of both Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer.

The finances of universities are even more obfuscated, but it is undeniable that some university employees have the power to spend the organization's money for their own personal benefit. Catered faculty luncheons. Campus beautification in and around personal offices. Settlements from the university to forestall civil suits based on personal indiscretions. Premium parking spaces. These expenditures may, in fact, be justified by the mission of the university, but it is impossible for me to audit any given university's accounting books to make that determination for myself before deciding whether I want to give them more money than they demand on their invoices.

There are a lot of outflow pipes for business revenues. Non-profits only close one of them.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#309
post #297

This is why they should make it law that your kids can't attend a university if you've donated there. This and the legacy admissions nonsense is beyond absurd. It's why I roll my eyes so hard when investors say that attending a top school is a "signal" that makes you a better bet to invest in as a founder. That signal is pretty damn weak if those top schools so rampantly accept bribes.

> they should make it law that your kids can't attend a university if you've donated there. Wow, not so fast. I'm a Stanford grad and I donate a bit of money every year when they ask. Should my future kids be excluded from admissions? There's a world of difference between donating and donating to get your kids admitted.

Yes. If after that law passed, you still chose to donate, then it would show your intentions were to benefit your alma mater, and not to get your kids in.

These elite schools all have massive endowments, on top of the ridiculously inflated tuition they charge, so give me a break if you're trying to tell me they need these donations.

Otherwise, the idea of an elite school on your resume "signaling" something about you is meaningless. These schools are supposed to be bastions of knowledge and research, not expensive country clubs for rich kids to network with each other.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. But I'm more curious as to the people that can't get into Stanford and have to go to lesser schools like I did - what exactly are we to do? It's pretty clear that our outcomes are not going to be as good by any means, and it seems like political correctness limits any discussion of that.

It just means you are gonna have to initially work a bit harder, be a bit more resilient to rejection, and be a bit more creative in trying to build those networks. I.e You are going to have to force those doors to open for you.

But yet...outcomes seem like they're destined to be worse overall.
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