Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dotfile madness

0x46.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 534 posts

Re: Dotfile madness

#301

Post by mr_toad »

oskkejdjdkjd wrote: post #244

Files in the Linux ecosystem are a mess. Files scattered everywhere and each instance of Linux uses some different arbitrary directory scheme. We really need a reboot. New micro kernel based OS with clear directory logic and dedicated directories for applications to keep stuff.

Files everywhere are a mess. Windows, Linux, MacOS, Solaris, HP-UX, VMS, CP/CMS. Every corporate network share I’ve ever seen has been a dumpster fire.

There are actually consultants who advise organisations on cleaning up their file systems.

Re: Dotfile madness

#302

Post by afiori »

akerro wrote: post #209

So, what's gonna happen on Wayland when these X-variables aren't defined? Am I going to lose config and have to copy directories from XDG to .config/ because that's new default?

The standard defined default for when they are not defined, from my experimenting with various distros they are almost never defined explicitly.

Re: Dotfile madness

#303

Post by jeffchien »

ljm wrote: post #232
nycticorax wrote: post #119

To me, the real problem is not the dotfiles, but the regular (i.e. non-hidden) files that applications surreptitiously create in my home folder. (Which the author does mention as being particularly bad.) dotfiles in the home folder are not a new thing on Linux (e.g. .bashrc, .profile, .emacs, etc.), even if it would be better if more applications used the XDG folders. And if I don't see them when I "ls", they don't b…

This strongly reminds me of installing software on Windows, where most games and programs would use My Documents as a dumping ground.

If it's the entire game, it might be to allow kids to install the game without administrator privilege (read: parental knowledge/consent), though I agree that letting people choose would be best.

Re: Dotfile madness

#304

Post by macjohnmcc »

I'll take dotfile madness over registry madness. I have been trying to figure out where in the registry Visual Studio 2015 puts its install location so I can remove that registry value when I reinstall it to put it in it's default location. So far I've wasted a ton of time trying to accomplish this. A single file .VS2015 would be preferable.

Re: Dotfile madness

#305

Post by mr_toad »

MereInterest wrote: post #285
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point the right solution is to just not allow applications to choose. Give each their own view of the file hierarchy but keep all the crap they spew out in a location obviously related to them from the user's view of the file hierarchy.

While this cleans up the file hierarchy, it absolutely destroys any interoperability between programs. If a program cannot output files that other programs can see, then it cannot output files that other programs can use as input. Between having a messier file hierarchy on the one hand, and not being able to open a Microsoft Word document outside of Microsoft Word, the former is by far the lesser evil.

iOS gets around this (sort-of) with permissions. If you want gmail to be able to email your photos you have to give it explicit permission.

Re: Dotfile madness

#306

Post by jlarocco »

themodelplumber wrote: post #180
nycticorax wrote: post #119

To me, the real problem is not the dotfiles, but the regular (i.e. non-hidden) files that applications surreptitiously create in my home folder. (Which the author does mention as being particularly bad.) dotfiles in the home folder are not a new thing on Linux (e.g. .bashrc, .profile, .emacs, etc.), even if it would be better if more applications used the XDG folders. And if I don't see them when I "ls", they don't b…

I have a slightly different pet peeve. I don't like applications that default to saving files to my home folder. I wish they would look for e.g. /home/user/Documents or whatever else seems appropriate and even semi-standardized given the type of file. But just dropping stuff in my home directory--look, if I'm in a hurry and my defenses are down, you basically just encouraged me to clutter things up. The last software…

There's no pleasing everybody.

I strongly prefer apps default to the previously used directory, and the home directory otherwise. IME apps are wrong 99% of the time when they guess their own save location.

Re: Dotfile madness

#307

Post by sixothree »

user5994461 wrote: post #233
ljm wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strongly reminds me of installing software on Windows, where most games and programs would use My Documents as a dumping ground.

It's fair to store documents and saved games in My Documents. Much better than storing them in C:\Windows or C:\Program Files, as was the case a decade ago, before windows introduced UAC and blocked write access to these.

It is not okay for some application to store files in My Documents folder. If it's not MY document then it doesn't belong in My Documents.

The user folder exists for a reason. Drop your crap in there.

Re: Dotfile madness

#309

Post by jlarocco »

sakoht wrote: post #252

The real problem is that any app I run accesss all files I own with equal permissions. App1 and App2 shouldn’t write their data to my home, or read each other’s data, or, please, be able to write each other’s data. A video game can read my tax forms. WTF. Mobile & tablet OSs solve this. Everything has to follow. Until then, basically every app should run in a docker container. Then it can do what it wants.

There's a very simple solution to this: Don't run apps that you don't trust.

If you simply must, use a VM or AppArmor or SELinux. Don't inconvenience everybody because you're too lazy to be responsible for your own data.

Besides, untrustworthy apps will bypass the protections anyway. Judging by the popularity of "curl | sudo bash" lately, they'll probably just ask for root directly.

Re: Dotfile madness

#310

Post by ndnxhs »

jlarocco wrote: post #309
sakoht wrote: post #252

The real problem is that any app I run accesss all files I own with equal permissions. App1 and App2 shouldn’t write their data to my home, or read each other’s data, or, please, be able to write each other’s data. A video game can read my tax forms. WTF. Mobile & tablet OSs solve this. Everything has to follow. Until then, basically every app should run in a docker container. Then it can do what it wants.

There's a very simple solution to this: Don't run apps that you don't trust. If you simply must , use a VM or AppArmor or SELinux. Don't inconvenience everybody because you're too lazy to be responsible for your own data. Besides, untrustworthy apps will bypass the protections anyway. Judging by the popularity of "curl | sudo bash" lately, they'll probably just ask for root directly.

>a few users are too lazy

Running untrusted programs is the default way we do computing. No one has time to audit every single program they run. The current desktop security model comes from when people mostly ran the programs that came with the OS and programs they wrote themself. Its vastly inappropriate for modern computer usage.

Post reply on HN