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Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

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Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#301
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming is a specialized, incredibly dynamic, role. Do you think it's fair to assume that all positions in a company act like that?

All jobs past and present involve some very specific domain knowledge and a range of more general skills. A car salesman needs to know a lot about the product, more general sales tactics, more general skills like email, and even more general skills like just speaking. But, as you narrow down into the ultra specific niche the percent of time working in that domain decreases. What percentage of the time is the sales gu…

> Put another way, if my last job had been using Java instead of C# I would have done the same thing with ~80% of my time. You would be reading the same requirements of the code was in another language.

That works well for languages, yes, but what about data scientists, business intelligence, cyber security, and machine learning experts? Those are all jobs that launched off the dev backbone, but are very different, have unique, specific knowledge and require training past what a normal degree requires. Dev-Ops may be a generalist position, but you'd need see someone who does Dev-Ops do those jobs.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#302

The bar for "low-skilled" is rising not only due to globalization but automation. In a way, this seems correct -- in a growing economy you shouldn't really be able to carve out a middle class lifestyle pushing a lever for 50+ years. If the economy is growing and innovation is taking it's course the low hanging fruit will eventually be clipped, the "gig" economy actually has the trend right in terms of the next "middl…

All this happened before. 1920's people were competing for fewer and fewer temp jobs. We call them gigs, but this is just part of the crash. Hopefully it won't be as bad and we won't need a world war to come out of it.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What we are seeing now is that between education, housing and financial insecurity it is hard to be even upper middle class anymore without existing wealth." I'm not sure that's really true - or at least, it's an incomplete model. Rather, what's happening with education, health care, & housing is that you have three sectors with flat productivity growth and large barriers to entry, which implies that the number of p…

In higher ed, at least, we have an abundance of people with PhDs that could theoretically teach at a college level - which is why a single tenure-track job will have 300 applicants. Not saying that supply and demand aren't involved here, but a simple application of supply and demand like you suggest isn't an adequate description.

Don't many of them actually teach (for bargain-basement wages)? At least, most of my friends who went to grad school had to teach undergrads at some point.

There's probably some artificial barriers to entry for education as well - it's hard to explain how Ph.Ds have no job prospects at the same time that college tuition keeps on rising. And I suspect that has to do with college's role as a signaling device for job prospects. If a bunch of Ph.Ds wanted to open a new college where they personally tutor a bunch of incoming college freshmen for much less than college costs, those kids would probably get a better education than any of their college-bound peers, but they also wouldn't have a degree from any credible university or much in the way of job prospects.

...come to think of it, I wonder if colleges know that their primary value is as a signaling mechanism, and intentionally restrict the size of the incoming class to preserve that signal. In other words, they're aware that they don't actually add any educational value, they just ensure that they only admit students who would've succeeded anyway and then point to all their successful graduates.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#304
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an outgrowth of the same rise in general competency. Inside a company programmers such as my self have been assigned to work on React without ever having seen it before with the expectation they will pick it up. It's only when looking for new employees that these differences have much weight. PS: I have been told to pick up low level network programming, frameworks such as React, new langues, even jumped into…

Programming is a specialized, incredibly dynamic, role. Do you think it's fair to assume that all positions in a company act like that?

You're both right. Specific jobs are becoming more specialized with a higher emphasis on understanding specific frameworks, languages and patterns. At the same time we switch jobs more often, so engineers have to to become more adaptable and less specialized to remain relevant to new roles.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outsourcing boom did this, not automation. Dogsbody type work is routinely offshored rather than being given to local juniors. Every company I've worked at in the last 3 years bar one has had a component of their workforce doing this kind of work - in the philippines or india.

Automation is just "Outsourcing to a computer" Seen that way, many outsourcing companies are just a halfway house to stuff that isn't quite fully automatable yet, but which might become so soon.

IME the work broke down into three groups:

1) QA - the tech industry bleats about its automation putting people out of work and then creates millions of jobs mindlessly clicking buttons. shrug

2) Lean startup - creating jobs that are designed to be automated but giving them to Indians to do manually first to test if the idea has legs and the job is even worth doing. This type of work isn't going anywhere even if the individual jobs get automated (as they were designed to be).

3) Semi-skilled work - reading contracts and picking out relevant terms. So far most attempts at solving this problem have been a riotous joke.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely because money and wealth is a zero sum game. There is only so much land, food, and materials to go around.

There is only so much land, food, and materials to go around. True(ish). False. False. I say "ish" for the first one because hopefully humanity will grow beyond Earth in the near future. Generally, all of the above are false unless you are talking about a population which never stops growing, and in that case that would be the problem. Not wealth inequality.

If you have a population that did stop growing, but in which class divisions exist, and the upper class keeps taking larger and larger share of overall wealth generated by the society, you're going to have a similar problem.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#307

I find the tone of articles like these to be patronizing. Let's be clear, the hollowing out of rural economies is a direct and explicit effect of trade policy, and not some accident of economics and markets. The precise dynamic in this article is that where previously cities provided capital and farms provided food, with a spectrum of services in between - with globalization, cities no longer depend on their regional…

The interests of rural people in the US are, depending on the state, protected by the electoral college and Senate allocation. Look for more attempts to abolish these things, which would be civil war-risking changes to government. To me there's no reason that old, beautiful towns couldn't become parts of the information economy, as long as they have decent internet access and are within an hour or two of a decent air…

> The interests of rural people in the US are, depending on the state, protected by the electoral college and Senate allocation. Look for more attempts to abolish these things, which would be civil war-risking changes to government.

The reason why there are attempts to abolish these things is because rural states have, arguably, been abusing that advantage to the point where the larger states are getting frustrated. The situation where a minority of a population can not just veto the majority policies, but impose its own, even in face of the supermajority (the US system allows the constitution to be amended with support of less than 25% people, so long as they vote in the right places), is not going to be sustainable for long.

And, by the way, the people who have set the system up knew that putting it on paper is not enough. There's a warning in the Federalist Papers (#22):

"It may happen that this majority of States is a small minority of the people of America; and two thirds of the people of America could not long be persuaded, upon the credit of artificial distinctions and syllogistic subtleties, to submit their interests to the management and disposal of one third. The larger States would after a while revolt from the idea of receiving the law from the smaller. To acquiesce in such a privation of their due importance in the political scale, would be not merely to be insensible to the love of power, but even to sacrifice the desire of equality. It is neither rational to expect the first, nor just to require the last. The smaller States, considering how peculiarly their safety and welfare depend on union, ought readily to renounce a pretension which, if not relinquished, would prove fatal to its duration."

Originally it was about something else, but in a very similar context (small states trying to get a unicameral 1-vote-per-state).

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exaggerating the population density. It definitely wasn't hundreds of thousands per street! Some figures here: https://urbanomnibus.net/2014/10/the-rise-and-fall-of-manhat... And it's worth pointing out that the peak population density in walk-up tenements was still well below what can be accomplished with tall modern day residential apartment buildings. No one is saying the tenements were desirable, or wishes…

SROs have also largely gone away. Not that many of them were very nice, but better than the street for a single person with limited means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_room_occupancy

to save anyone else a search.

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#309
post #165
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So five years later you build more housing . We as a species are capable of building absurdly dense cities that are probably per-capita the cheapest place a person can live (since you cram so many into every skyscraper). We choose not to because "property values" and "my view from my window" and "I don't want those people living here".

I'm curious - are skyscrapers really the cheapest option per person? I tried to search but haven't been able to find any numbers. I ask because recently I was reading about the old housing projects in the USA. One thing the writer pointed out is that huge buildings are expensive to both build and maintain. You need to use steel and deep foundations driven to bedrock. You need complex mechanical systems to serve every…

In terms of material costs for the structure, no, high rises aren't the optimum of affordability. But when you factor in the infrastructure requirements on the scale of demand for "the city" you can easily find that building miles and miles of brownstones gets you the worst of both worlds - you need to maintain the infrastructure of high rises with public transit, cleaners, etc but you are only getting a fraction the density you could if you spent more on the building.

You can think of it from the perspective of how cities grow - there is pressure inward to grow up the core and people will push from the outsides in. That push can result in low density sprawl or upsizing density, but they are pushing in to get closer to the actual city core where maximum interconnectedness and locality can happen.

In the naive way most US cities have grown individual townships and developments manage themselves and protect their own to the detriment of the whole. Its how you get situations like what Strong Towns talks about all the time[1] where sprawling out has quadratic expenses. As metro areas grow, and certainly when you are in the tens of millions, you are looking at spending preposterous amounts of money on your suburban infrastructure that way eclipses the per-unit costs of building denser buildings in a smaller footprint.

[1] https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2016/9/18/more-math

Re: Big Cities No Longer Deliver for Low-Skill Workers

#310
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been on employment insurance before. I can't understand the appeal of ubi. Getting a small amount of money to do nothing is excruciating. It's really not a fun way to live.

I've seen people use UBI to mean "employment insurance" but that's misuse of the term. From wikipedia: "A Basic Income would vary with age, but there would be no other conditions: so everyone of the same age would receive the same Basic Income, whatever their gender, employment status, family structure, contribution to society, housing costs, or anything else." So it's not a small amount of money to do nothing, but j…

It's effectively the same, because most people will be paying more taxes than they'll receive in their UBI check. So only a relatively small part of the population would actually receive money, with the rest effectively subsidizing them.

The main advantage over doing explicit means-testing is that this all is much simpler to maintain - you just need to adjust the amount and the tax until you end up with the cut-off (the point at which people are paying more into the system than they are receiving) is where you want it to be. It can even be dynamic, depending on how well the economy is doing.

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