If we are speaking about the fairness. We should blacklist everything. All available GPUs and its drivers whether its official or not on every OSes, cannot be trusted in its current state.
Chromium blacklists Nouveau
301–310 of 411 posts
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, Firefox is stuck with blacklisting basically everything. I guess developers didn't revisit drivers situation in the recent times. Just set these in your $HOME/.profile export MOZ_WEBRENDER=1 export MOZ_ACCELERATED=1
Thanks! Edit - will that work for the snap version BTW?
You'd need to figure out how environment variables work in Snap and set them there, I haven't used it myself.
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, like North Korea's rocket launches are routine technical missions, too. Chromium is slinging mud at nouveau and I can't stand for that.
So, chromium is like "I want a better experience for my users out of the box" and this leads to you comparing them to North Korean nuclear launches? You need an internet timeout. Go get drunk, stoned whatever you do and try again Monday.
Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't post like this to HN.
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ouch, that's mean. IMHO the only way to react to that is to close down shop. Ideally including Linux throwing out support for Nvidia cards. I have a strong opinion on this as I was involved a few years ago in the Kindle homebrew community. After a while I decided that my time could be used better than on a product by a company that tries to prevent us from making his product better and more interesting to its users.…
I've personally actively avoided buying anything with Nvidia hardware in it for 8 years now because of how awful their software business is. That has meant I've even skipped over tablets and phones using their chips and will never buy a Nintendo Switch because... well... firstly consoles are bullshit crippling perfectly good computers with proprietary OSes but secondly because it has an Nvidia chip in it. I tell ever…
If you do any machine learning you'll likely still need Nvidia for CUDA, it was the deal breaker for going AMD in my case.
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You don't whine at open source providers to support features you want, it's bad form. Go fix it yourself This just about sums up the problem with open source. The response is always "if you don't like it, fix it yourself". Because everybody is a developer with copious free time to learn how to fix the problem in their favorite product. It's not like cloning and building Chromium takes hours. Or like you would lose…
I don't see what the issue here is. If you don't have the time to do it then get someone else to do it. If they won't do it for free then you pay them. The unfortunate part is that if you regularly buy brand new Nvidia cards then the cost of the proprietary driver is built into the price of the card, so it sucks that you would have to pay twice for drivers. But this clearly is a result of Nvidia's decision, they are…
Sorry for the confusion, I see mentioning Chromium by name made my comment a bit misleading. I was responding to the parent comment (not to the original post) and using Chromium as an example of how it's unrealistic to ask users to fix things themselves when using OSS. I was not trying to comment on Google's decision on this particular issue here (though I have mild thoughts on that too).
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you download the current Windows ISO image and install that offline, you won't get a proper driver for your nVidia card either. Yet, this is accepted as normal. Some Linux distributions that do not hamper themselves artificially on philosophical grounds offer nvidia binary drivers in their package repositories like they do with every other driver they contain. Your focus on the kernel sources is too narrow. There…
Parent is referring to the fact the Linux drivers are meant to be baked into the kernel and Nvidia doesn't wish to play ball. You can't compare Linux and Windows when it comes to drivers, they have different methods of providing those drivers.
Yeah, and Linux's insistence on not having a stable ABI for drivers is problematic for Nvidia, just as Nvidia's insistence on not open sourcing their drivers is problematic for Linux.
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, Chromium is free in the GNU sense, which is what I meant. You don't whine at open source providers to support features you want, it's bad form. Go fix it yourself, or use hardware that doesn't require this kind of hacky reverse engineering.
> You don't whine at open source providers to support features you want, it's bad form. Go fix it yourself This just about sums up the problem with open source. The response is always "if you don't like it, fix it yourself". Because everybody is a developer with copious free time to learn how to fix the problem in their favorite product. It's not like cloning and building Chromium takes hours. Or like you would lose…
> Because everybody is a developer with copious free time to learn how to fix the problem in their favorite product.
But that's the point. The response always works because it's proportional to the problem. For problems that are legitimately small and you could fix yourself, or pay someone to do it for an amount of money that a normal person could feasibly pay, it's a valid way to solve the problem.
And for problems bigger than that, it invites the user to consider what they're really asking for and who they're asking for it. Actually fixing nVidia's dumpster fire would be a huge ordeal for anyone other than nVidia. Asking a third party to do it without documentation... let's just say there is a reason nouveau is in the state that it's in, and it's not a general lack of interest in fixing it.
So in that case "go fix it yourself" means "if you think it's so easy then let's see you do it."
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh? It appears they did test it, and for that matter (according to the linked post) so did the Nouveau devs who also found it failed the easily accessible test suite.
We agree Nouveau is completely blacklisted right? That's the main problem here. And the test suite failed on a minor issue where the cause was uncertain, which gets in the way of checking for the bigger definitely-the-driver problem.
If you can hang the GPU with regular webgl content, that's not a minor issue.
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you download the current Windows ISO image and install that offline, you won't get a proper driver for your nVidia card either. Yet, this is accepted as normal. Some Linux distributions that do not hamper themselves artificially on philosophical grounds offer nvidia binary drivers in their package repositories like they do with every other driver they contain. Your focus on the kernel sources is too narrow. There…
Parent is referring to the fact the Linux drivers are meant to be baked into the kernel and Nvidia doesn't wish to play ball. You can't compare Linux and Windows when it comes to drivers, they have different methods of providing those drivers.
I can fully compare those, your wish to the contrary nonwithstanding:
- both are viable desktop operating systems
- nVidia successfully and consistently releases high quality video drivers for both
Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think their point is that by default, even with the "use recommended drivers" option enabled, Ubuntu uses the nouveau driver by default instead of installing and using the NVIDIA driver.
the nvidia driver is proprietary. If nvidia opens the source, maybe they would ship with that instead.
Well, installing recommended drivers on Ubuntu installs the Intel or AMD microcode, which is definitely proprietary, so I don't think that's a particularly reasonable argument.
The NVIDIA driver is the driver that yields the best performance and experience; AFAICT the only reason it's not shipped by default is because the kernel is then considered "impure" or something (because source isn't available to debug issues in the NVIDIA driver), hence bugs can't be filed upstream for any issues in the kernel if the NVIDIA driver is installed.
However, none of this is really the concern of the Chrome team. Their responsibility is to give the user the best experience, which they have defined as security, stability, and performance in that order. Since the nouveau driver is causing stability bugs, it's perfectly reasonable for them to fallback to software rendering and take the performance hit in order to preserve stability.