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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

europa.eu

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#301

Post by ahartmetz »

cageface wrote: post #268
mustacheemperor wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the comment below enumerating the reasons for the ruling, I don't see any overlap between what Google is being fined for and Apple's business practices. Apple isn't forcing 3rd party OEMs to install Safari on their hardware in order to run Apple apps because Apple makes all their own hardware. iOS is not an open source OS meant to be available to third parties, and Apple doesn't have a search engine to pay…

You missed my point. Effectively there is more than one kind of monopoly and Apple has just as much control over the mobile space as Google does and abuses it in their own way by pushing their browser, disallowing third party app stores and alternative default mail, maps, etc. Expect to see more of this as Apple starts to rely more and more on services revenue. Apple currently pulls in an astonishing 87% of mobile pr…

Because they don't control the devices of 87% of users. Their profits are good for them and all, but have no direct bearing on their ability to exert unfair influence, especially in other markets (e.g. search engines).

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#302

Post by acct1771 »

Tepix wrote: post #269
VikingCoder wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Apple is a brutal dictatorship that doesn't share anything? That's fine. Oh, Google, you're willing to share almost everything with anyone for free, but you want to put terms on that? Hey, here's a giant fine. I just don't understand the logic of this at all.

It's mostly about having a 80% market share.

Fine them for the anticompetitive practices, then - not success...

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#303

Post by SparklingCotton »

oliwarner wrote: post #83
rusk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of felt the same about the Apple Tax / Irish Revenue Commissioners thing. On looking into the judgement however it appeared as though both parties actively sought to subvert competition rules under a disingenuous "veil of ignorance" . Warning shots had been fired earlier but the practices continued hence the fine. I haven't read into the details of this judgement yet but you may well find similar reasoning the…

That's not a fine against Apple, it's a demand that Ireland corrects past behaviour that has been deemed state aid. While it's certainly Apple's prerogative to play EU states off against each other to get the best deal, it should have been blindingly obvious that what it was getting from Ireland would be, and should be reversed.

> While it's certainly Apple's prerogative to play EU states off against each other to get the best deal

It certainly IS NOT. When Apple "get's a deal" it is by definition market manipulation. You're not supposed to "get a deal" regarding taxation!

The same taxation rules must apply to every company or else there is illegal subsidy. The whole idea around "making a deal" on tax is horrendous anti-capitalist BS.

It's exactly the same as "making a deal" wrt the law in a corrupt country. A corporation "making a deal" by having government look away when they do something illegal, or getting their competitors fined on dubious charges.

Apple, Google, Microsoft, and basically all of those companies ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH for not refusing do to business with the market-corrupting Irish Republic.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#304

Post by Wheaties466 »

Dayshine wrote: post #294
endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Let's read the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... >Article 102 >Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States. >Such abuse may, in particular, consist in: >b) limiting production, markets or techni…

Thank you for breaking this down.

I can already see headlines bashing the EU though.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#305

Post by endorphone »

Dayshine wrote: post #294
endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

Let's read the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... >Article 102 >Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States. >Such abuse may, in particular, consist in: >b) limiting production, markets or techni…

How is that not clearly breaching d?

They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other.

And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors wanted to is because they could double dip: Pitch the Android experience and get the market inroads, while getting some Bing or whatever payola to "force" that on a consumer.

The same is true of the other claim-

Then they said "You can't use Google Play if you try to help develop any android forks."

Google's argument, whether honest or not, is that if you need a consistent representation of the Android experience that you're selling to consumers. If the GS8 has the full Android experience, but then the GS8P has the Android Fun Store and Bing Search, this can seriously dilute the market opinion of Android and cause consumer confusion.

This is absolutely not at all clear cut. It is incredibly nuanced. And if we just go around clubbing everything coarsely, why does my BMW have a BMW entertainment system? Why couldn't I choose Alpine at the dealer? An entertainment system is not an engine, right? I don't want to go down the road of absurd analogies, but if you're seriously presenting the notion that this is clear cut, you are not really thinking about it much.

As an aside, Google has had the same policies regard their suite of apps since day 1 of Android. Since the very beginning. When iOS absolutely dwarfed it. When Blackberry reigned supreme. When I was hefting around my sad little HTC Dream and listening to the John Gruber's tell us how doomed it was.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#306

Post by chii »

appleflaxen wrote: post #256

there is a lot of criticism of the EC by the HN community, but I am extremely happy to have some push-back against the oligopoly of Apple, Google, etc. let's do apple, facebook, and amazon next. now if we could only convince comcast to provide services to the EU.... having a small set of companies controlling everything harms all consumers.

> I am extremely happy to have some push-back against the oligopoly of Apple, Google, etc....let's do apple, facebook, and amazon next.

better yet, force companies to open up their walled gardens. I want phones to be more like PCs, where the device is in full control by the owner. I want the app store be available to be changed without consequence, and/or have multiple competing stores.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#307

Post by frockington »

detaro wrote: post #215
thrillgore wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After GDPR? I'm seeing the EU as a sizable liability that hands out fines like candy. Blocking them doesn't seem like a crazy idea.

On what data do you base your judgement that GDPR means the EU "hands out fines like candy"?

The article this post links to would point to the trigger happy fine nature of the EU when it comes to American technology

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#308

Post by [deleted] »

endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

[deleted]

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#309

Post by bendiksolheim »

rhodysurf wrote: post #212
bendiksolheim wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might have misunderstood what theBobBob meant with "default apps" completely, but that was not how I understood it at all. As far as I understand, he talks about disallowing apps on the App Store, so this would be a completely different point (to which I agree, setting a different browser would be nice).

They don’t allow apps that have similar functionality as well. On my phone, but when AirPods came out they pulled an app that helped you find your AirPods from the store because they included their own version of the same tool in an update

I was unaware of this exact case, thanks for the information. I agree that pulling apps such as this is very unfortunate.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#310

Post by typon »

endorphone wrote: post #305
Dayshine wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's read the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... >Article 102 >Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States. >Such abuse may, in particular, consist in: >b) limiting production, markets or techni…

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

Are there car dealers trying to offer a la carte car + entertainment system packages but are being shut down by BMW?
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