Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

m.signalvnoise.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 461 posts

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#301

Post by pnw_hazor »

byebyetech wrote: post #128

It is very interesting indeed that tech companies who proud themselves in making decisions that are purely "Data Driven" completely ignores data in this case. Majority of developers hate Open Office and study after study shows that its bad. Yet they can't make decision to have offices. Very strange.

They have made their decision based on data, devs are commodity items that are fungible so associated costs should be minimized.

They may not admit that, but look at their actions. If you don't like their unhealthy office space they are okay with you taking a hike.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#302

Post by Rebelgecko »

cimmanom wrote: post #216
the_jeremy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any passive, over-ear firearm hearing protection also works (and most are cheaper than $40).

Finding over-ear gear that works well with glasses can be problematic, tho

At the risk of sounding like a shill, I recently picked up a set of Noisefigher Sightlines (https://noisefighters.com). They're replacement ear pads with a notch cut out for glasses. My glasses don't fit in perfectly, but the frames put noticeably less pressure on my head now.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#303

Post by nucleardog »

rimliu wrote: post #195
athenot wrote: post #77

I think what's a terrible idea is pegging people to specific locations. That used to be necessary to find someone in the office but nowadays we have other tools to discover each other's locations. Instead of binding people to locations, I'd much rather bind activities/moods to locations, e.g. - the studious space: hushed atmosphere like a library, NO TALKING, for people actively working on brain problems - the collab…

For me hotsitting, flex-spacing or whatever you call it just quietly whispers: "you do not belong".

"This is all temporary. Do not get comfortable. Be ready for it all to drop out from under you on a moment's notice."

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#304

Post by pnw_hazor »

mpg33 wrote: post #78

Open office is "anti-focus" imo. It's crazy how it even became a thing. Cubicles use up the same amount of space and at least you have some privacy.

Nice cubicles are pretty expensive.

Evidence would suggest that companies are willing to harm their employees, reduce productivity, and pay more recruiter fees rather than pay for cubicles.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#305

Post by dazc »

mikestew wrote: post #275
cimmanom wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my colleagues brings his 5-y/o to work once a week (open office of course), and let me tell you: a chattering, running, squealing kid is even more distracting than the dogs and televisions put together.

Yeah, had a dev manager that used to bring his daughter, who I'd guess to be around 10. She was so noisy and obnoxious, I seriously thought she had a mental disability, so I cut her some slack ( not that it suddenly made it okay to take her to work). And then I figured out that she was just undisciplined... That same office (which, as I'm sure you have figured out, was an open office) allowed dogs. Mostly fine, I'd t…

'I guess my point is, yessh people, what happened to the professional work environment?'

Maybe related to bullshit jobs since these people are obviously not doing any real work, just bringing their homelife to the office in order to make time pass quicker?

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#306

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

Chris_Jay wrote: post #149
YouKnowBetter wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I share your sentiment, fact is that these trivial savings show up nicely on someone's target and the deteriorating effect shows up somewhere else, if at all. The open office I am in ATM is one such places where a handfull of people (loud, discussing totally not related to work, factually completly idiotic conversations) spoil it for all others. There is nothing to be done about these people since they've…

I don't understand why you can't tell them the reason you're leaving without burning a bridge - "I don't work well in an open-office environment, I found I was constantly distracted and inefficient. It's just not the right environment for me to thrive" isn't untrue or pointing fingers, and it's valuable feedback for your employer.

I think perhaps bigger than the open office problem is grand parent point seems obvious to me in our current society. Either you are 110% on board with what the company wants, or you aren't a team player (and implied a bad person/worker/resource). It is daring to question them, daring to say they did something imperfect.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#307

Post by nucleardog »

delecti wrote: post #181
Marazan wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like open plan offices. The increased collaboration is a plain and albviius benefit for me as a developer. A site crushing issue was solved in 30 seconds due to me overhearing a conversation in ouropen plan office. Without that it would have been at least 3 hours of pass the parcel to work out what incredibly obscure thing with timezones had happened.

How many such situations don't happen despite an open office, because the person who could have solved it was wearing noise blocking headphones? Most discussions near me don't require my attention, so none of them get my attention.

Either I listen to none of the discussions and remove any apparent benefit of collaboration in an open office, or I listen to all of the discussions, and I accomplish nothing personally.

You can pay me to focus, or you can pay me to listen to conversations and look for opportunities to help. You can't have me do both.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#308

Post by bshoemaker »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #217

Companies treat programmers as costs that should be minimized. They manage programmers like children (toys and treats) or stenographers(typing pools) because it is cheap. Whereas, lawyers in law firms are considered revenue generators and they are treated that way. When I switched from programming to lawyering, one of the biggest differences I noticed was how the law firm staff and office manager were always trying t…

Ah yes, Google & Facebook et. al. really seem to be minimizing their costs by spending hundreds of thousands per developer on salary and millions upon millions in toys and perks.

What world are you living in?

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#309

Post by thx11389793 »

tombert wrote: post #20
zeveb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The argument of "increased collaboration" that I keep hearing is kind of negated when people have the soccer game on and you're bombarded with constant cheering Is there anything less professional than watching a game at work? I really don't get why people do this, and why they think it's okay. Granted, I don't like sports — but I like TV, and I wouldn't watch TV at work. I like computer games, but I wouldn't play…

I agree. When I suggested putting on a low-budget 50's monster movie on as background noise (e.g. Gamera, Godzilla, The Giant Claw, something that's amusing to look at for thirty seconds, laugh a bit, but not overly distracting), people act almost offended that I would waste company time like that. But if the TV has some form of ball on it, drop everything.

I worked in a highrise office that had TVs ringing the floor that you could remote into to display dashboards and whatnot. One day I decided to play, on mute, endless episodes of How It's Made.

For reference, I work in a hardware engineering group. Some mesmerizing process would show up on screen, one person would stop and stare, and 5 minutes later we have a half dozen engineers who've stopped what they were doing to watch How It's Made.

Eventually we settled on Bob Ross as a happy medium in terms of "Pleasant Ambiance" and "Not Too Distracting."

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#310

Post by PurpleBoxDragon »

tomtheelder wrote: post #23
mcherm wrote: post #2

> And for what? Because a minority of people kinda like that configuration? Because it’ll look good in a few photos? Because it’ll impress strangers who visit the office? Somehow the author missed the primary reason for the open office configuration: "Because it cuts the costs of office space by a HUGE amount (certainly more than half)." I suppose "Because it makes it easier for managers to keep an eye on their emplo…

Yeah this is one of HN's favorite topics to bash on while completely ignoring the primary reason why the open office exists and persists. It's not about collaboration, it's not about socializing, it's about money. Just like all other business related decisions.

And specifically, about an easy to measure cost verses an hard (if not impossible) to measure cost. Facilities can easily be measured. Productivity lost due to employees overwhelmed with sights and sounds (and even smells)? Much harder to measure, and so much easier to just not measure it or low ball it. So even if money is being lost, it looks like money is being saved.
Post reply on HN