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US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

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Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#301

Post by chaostheory »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #127
dv_dt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're thinking of the historical details to say that in such a blase manner. The path to integration went through periods much more violent and contentious than anything we see today.

I'm aware of how immigrants were treated back then and I'm not condoning it. That still doesn't change the fact that they came from cultures that IMO were quite compatible with the USAs considering their common origin and values. I think the current situation in Europe, and other instances of mass migration in history, demonstrate that not all cultures are compatible with each other

That’s not true. When German immigrants were new, no one believed they would integrate since they refused to give up speaking German. Catholics like the Irish were viewed with suspicion because they revered a pope.

America’s secret superpower is the ability to assimilate pretty much any people within four generations give or take

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#302

Post by sngz »

Analemma_ wrote: post #246
xienze wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. If the pay is right, you will find plenty of people to pick produce. But in a world where people expect $15/hour for work that is leisurely in comparison (fast food), paying that much for hard labor ain’t gonna cut it.

> Bullshit. I provided sources showing that this is, empirically, what happens, no matter what you would like to believe. > If the pay is right, you will find plenty of people to pick produce. Obviously! But once you do that, the produce costs so much that no one wants to buy it. That is the fundamental issue here.

> Obviously! But once you do that, the produce costs so much that no one wants to buy it. That is the fundamental issue here.

the market will correct itself.

why would anyone want to pick raspberry for $10 an hour when I can get paid more working at in & out. Basically we should support shitty working conditions and black market labor because people dont wanna pay more for their produce?

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#303

Post by raverbashing »

gowld wrote: post #177
jaredklewis wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese immigrated to the US at a similar time as the Irish and Italians. The more than 3 million Chinese living in the US today seem plenty well integrated and I don’t think China and America are particular close in terms of culture.

And the Chinese immigrants were met with the same fierce racism that meets Hispanics and Arabs and Africans today.

In France the Chinese are the preferred targets of gangs (run by whom?) http://www.france24.com/en/20160908-france-chinese-community...

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#304

Post by raverbashing »

dragontamer wrote: post #297
raverbashing wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nigerians are primarily Muslims. More like 50%/50% > What about Indians? Who are usually either Hindu or Muslim? Most are Hindu or Sikh

> Most are Hindu or Sikh Oh right, Pakistan is where the Muslims come from. Apologies, its sometimes hard to remember everything about the world. But yeah, neither of those are Christian. Both are IIRC Polythistic religions, about as different from Christianity as possible. Muslims for example believe in Abraham and the existence of Jesus. Their story is... very different but Allah is clearly the God of Abraham / Yah…

(removed)

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#305

Post by dragontamer »

raverbashing wrote: post #304
dragontamer wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most are Hindu or Sikh Oh right, Pakistan is where the Muslims come from. Apologies, its sometimes hard to remember everything about the world. But yeah, neither of those are Christian. Both are IIRC Polythistic religions, about as different from Christianity as possible. Muslims for example believe in Abraham and the existence of Jesus. Their story is... very different but Allah is clearly the God of Abraham / Yah…

(removed)

> driving trucks over people

This hurtful stereotype doesn't even work for the majority of the Bin Laden family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family), let alone the majority of Muslims.

I think that MAYBE a case can be made against the Wahhabi philosophy / sect (and similar sects). Maybe, but that's the furthest I'd go towards deriding a religious group in its entirety. Things are especially complicated because a large number of pro-Wahhabi Saudi princes are working very closely with the USA on this issue.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#306

Post by mattrices »

kaitai wrote: post #257
nostromo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap produce is awesome. :) But working people not being able to find jobs because they're competing with dirt-cheap no-benefit laborers is not. :(

In many states the employment market is so tight that jobs are going unfilled. This is especially true in blue-collar jobs that require interfacing with computers and advanced machinery. In many areas with higher unemployment rate, employers still complain they can't find anyone who can pass a drug test. We do have a mismatch -- lots of employers simply aren't yet paying enough to get employees. And agricultural empl…

Americans do actually want to do ag jobs, they just expect decent working conditions. Many employeers prefer illegal immigrants because they are more easily exploitable in regards to not only wages, but also safety.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#307

Post by raverbashing »

dragontamer wrote: post #305
raverbashing wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(removed)

> driving trucks over people This hurtful stereotype doesn't even work for the majority of the Bin Laden family ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family ), let alone the majority of Muslims. I think that MAYBE a case can be made against the Wahhabi philosophy / sect (and similar sects). Maybe, but that's the furthest I'd go towards deriding a religious group in its entirety. Things are especially complicated…

You're right. But it's a fact.

Do you know what works for a significant number of them? Antisemitism. Homophobia. Ingrained misogyny. Hate towards atheists.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#308

Post by loggedinmyphone »

skissane wrote: post #295
loggedinmyphone wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness many Catholics don't accept Protestants as Christians either.

> In fairness many Catholics don't accept Protestants as Christians either. If any Catholic actually thinks this, they must be deeply ignorant of Catholic theology. According to the Catholic Church, anyone baptised using water and with a Trinitarian formula is Christian. Most Protestant denominations baptise people in this way, so most baptised Protestants are Christians according to traditional Catholic theology. (A…

That's interesting but I thought the Donatist decision only applied to people who wanted to be part of the Roman Catholic church but their baptising priest had at some point lapsed. Generally Protestants don't recognize the authority of the church at all (i.e. Sola scriptura).

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#309

Post by dragontamer »

raverbashing wrote: post #307
dragontamer wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> driving trucks over people This hurtful stereotype doesn't even work for the majority of the Bin Laden family ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family ), let alone the majority of Muslims. I think that MAYBE a case can be made against the Wahhabi philosophy / sect (and similar sects). Maybe, but that's the furthest I'd go towards deriding a religious group in its entirety. Things are especially complicated…

You're right. But it's a fact. Do you know what works for a significant number of them? Antisemitism. Homophobia. Ingrained misogyny. Hate towards atheists.

> Antisemitism

I don't think that Muslimphobia is an appropriate response to Antisemitism.

Look: the Nazis were primarily Christian. We recognized the political movement of the Nazis as independent of their religion.

People today still don't realize that the Ba'athists of Iraq (who eventually joined with ISIS) were SECULAR. Hint: Religion is at best, a minor component to the violent middle-eastern philosophy. The Middle East is far more complicated than a group of religions.

There is a concept, and this concept goes BEYOND religious grounds (as it is taking hold in the Ba'athist reminants of Northern Iraq). Middle Easterners long for the re-establishment of their lost Empires from the middle ages. They dream of a reunified Arab State. (Or at least, that's the shared dream of the violent ISIS members in general)

And yes. Ba'athists believe it should be secular and pan-religious. They're also authoritarian and incredibly violent. But its important to keep these political groups in mind. But yes, even the secular groups dream of re-establishing their former empire. And yes, Wahhabists believe it should be a religious theocracy. But there's a lot of subgroups to this political movement.

Don't mistake the political situation with the religious undertones. Besides, a Muslim from Nigeria typically doesn't give a rats ass about this "pan-Arabic" stuff. So the religious stuff is purely a distraction.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#310

Post by wetpaws »

dionidium wrote: post #258
magduf wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's "jobs" in all those places, but not necessarily jobs the OP can do. I lived in the NYC area for a short time, and the job market there for my specialty and experience was terrible. Here in the DC area, it's excellent. Places like Indianapolis, Nashville, etc., would also likely be terrible for me. Certain industries and specialties are concentrated mainly in certain areas, so if you're specialized, you have t…

Yes, of course. If you're a deep sea fisherman, it's trivially provable that you can't do that job in Nebraska :) But that's never what these guys mean. It's always casually advanced as a blanket statement about the hopelessness of living somewhere that you can't smell the ocean. I don't know why it became popular to demonstrate such obvious ignorance about the job markets of inland cities, but here we are. I, for ex…

This is precisely what I meant. Good luck searching for tech jobs in Portland or even in Seattle outside of Amazon/MS
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