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Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#301
post #13

The pieces don't quite fit together here - Harry Fox handles a LOT of licensing (they're one of the places you can get mechanical licenses for cover songs via self-service) and I'd assume that a big contract for an organization the size of Spotify would include at least some indemnification for any legal issues. And, naturally, the damage amount is wildly unrelated to actual revenues - not quite the "one download on…

One thing that has always impressed me: how did Spotify obtain licenses for such a massive, international catalog of popular (and often, rare) music.

Can anyone shed some light, e.g. who led this effort, what made it possible?

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#302
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the Just World Hypothesis. "Something bad happens, you must've screwed up somehow. Just look at me, I'm doing fine and I instinctively know that random good-luck had nothing to do with it."

I think that effect it's called by psychologists "fundamental attribution error". It has been studied for years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

It's called the Just World Hypothesis and has indeed been studied for decades.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#303
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take physical media out of the equation you get buying the CD on iTunes or something. It's hard to see what utility this gives you beyond playing the song on Spotify.

Given that iTunes provides DRM free tracks, the utility it provides is irrevocable offline reproduction

I'd say that the majority of consumers don't really care about that, though.

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#304
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, is there any particular reason you didn't just leave? I'd imagine this fits the kind of situation where you aren't obligated to stay.

The billion dollar question. Why didn't you leave. Couple of weeks ago been talking to a coworker and said him that _sometimes_ people end up in uncomfortable situations. Family, children, debt, divorce, medical, elderly parents and so on - he said, that's not possible, because people _should_ plan their lives.

[deleted]

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#305

I was one of the original engineers on MP3.com. Shortly after our music locker service debuted, we got sued by all the major labels. I spent 4 months writing tools to pull all the discovery data for their lawsuits. When it was apparent our court case was going south, the major music publishers sued us as well (lead by Harry Fox Agency). I spent another 4 months pulling discovery data for those lawsuits. When those co…

If you don't mind me asking, is there any particular reason you didn't just leave? I'd imagine this fits the kind of situation where you aren't obligated to stay.

Did he get paid for his work during these two years? It doesn't look like a funny work [1] but it brings home the bacon.

[1] Perhaps the first wave is interesting, but the third or fourth time is probably a little repetitive.

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a recording is mine permanently and physically

True, but most users don't seem to mind. Arguably, streaming is just a better storage medium for most users. Until the company providing the service screws its customers over, if course. I doubt that possibility weighs very heavily into many consumers' buying choices.

But the relative cost one would be willing to pay varies.

Would I pay a streaming service $10 a month for 10 tracks, that I can only listen to on their service, but which I get unlimited plays of so long as I subscribe to their service? Hell no.

Would I purchase an album of 10 songs, that are mine into perpetuity to listen to, make reasonable copies of, fair use of, etc, for $10? Yes.

Would I pay a streaming company for on demand access to a broad catalog of songs? Yes.

But note how my consumption and value varies.

The thing is, streaming services are, fundamentally, gainining 'per listen' value, and that model is reflected into how they're paying rightsholders. That is, the more I listen to a track, the more value it collects for the owner.

A purchasing model is how many purchases. Listens are not really correlated to that (at least, not to the price). That is, one user may listen to the purchased album 100 times, the other may listen to one song 100 times, and one user may listen to the album 1000 times. All paid the same, all generated the rightsholders the same.

As such, I think treating streaming as a storage medium would be...poorly thought out. Not least of all because at that point you could make a strong case that the streaming service should be paying every rightsholder for every subscriber; they are, after all, -storing- that music for the new subscriber; nevermind if the subscriber ever listens to it or not.

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#307
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Disney stories (including Snow White) are copied from earlier works by authors unaffiliated with Disney.

Copied? Snow White was a groundbreaking feat of animation brilliance, a result of tireless effort, craftsmanship and detail that experts widely agree rivals any animation project produced to date. It was literally the first feature-length color animated film with sync audio ever produced, and you’re cutting it down for it’s screenplay being inspired by a fairy tale? This is no weakness. This is consistent with filmma…

>you’re cutting it down for it’s screenplay being inspired by a fairy tale

That wasn't my reading of the parent at all.

Snow White the animated film wouldn't have been made if copyright was perpetually inherited and some distant Grimm relative refused to give Disney permission to make the film. This is relevant to your original point - that "I find complaining about someone’s artistic endeavors not being free to be absurd in it’s own way." You may find it absurd, but if it were not so, a work you seem to admire might never have been produced.

There is a cultural component to art. It draws from the culture and gives back to the culture. Long copyright terms - and I find current copyright terms very long - prevent future artists from drawing on the culture to produce new, transformative works.

Disney was able to draw on cultural material from the prior 100 years to make Snow White. But if the current copyright-extension-cycle continues, it seems plausible that Disney films - and all works created in the same period - may never fall into the public domain in the USA, and future artists will not be able to enjoy the same free use of cultural source material as Disney itself has done.

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#308
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blockchains are the next big thing in nothing. They are not here to revolutionise anything [1] I beg to differ [1] > So how in the seven hells is blockchain going to help? It's not a silver bullet, and most things are not ones that were not possible before. But it facilitates some combinations, makes some things a lot more practical, and opens space for innovation. In this case, in particular, what comes to mind is…

> there's a replicated consensus of all this attributions. Every single company agrees and has a shared database of the rights and the licensing. Riiight. They can't agree on a standard describing their music and licensing now. But blockchain will magically create that shared database out of thin air. BTW. Again. That same word, database. Nothing a relational database couldn't handle with much more ease and efficienc…

> But blockchain will magically create that shared database out of thin air.

It won't, and it's a strawman you are setting up. Of course you have to design your business logic and rules and answer all the questions. There's nothing a blockchain, a relational or a nosql database will do for you there. They will give you different options and different tradeoffs. The point here is that this distributed solution has interesting trade-offs and opportunities that makes this a good match for this particular problem, regardless of rules of what defines a song or how licensing rights rules are defined.

> BTW. Again. That same word, database. Nothing a relational database couldn't handle with much more ease and efficiency.

Yes, sure. You can have a third party with a central relational database that does all that, and all companies trust it. The proposed solution is more akin to a relational database replicated between all interested parties. All the parties having the same vision of immutable data allows interesting tradeoffs for this particular problem, that's all. No one is claiming it will identify or classify songs for you.

> Because blockchain is a magical technology that transmits all this information directly into your brain without the need of APIs.

No, because you can design a solution where any interested party can join the network and have a copy of the data. Or not. Trade-offs.

> Also, the article you linked is a bunch of demagoguery

I think it's a very pratical way of understanding the oportunities and capabilities that open up with new technology, particulary if you have a knee-jerk reaction such as shown above. Scepticism is healthy particularly given all the hype and magical promises around it but if you look at it through the framework proposed there I hope you can see how it opens design space that was unpractical before.

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Copyright has been abused to the point where it is more of a detriment than it is worth." Do you really believe that an artist who makes good money licensing their music for use in TV or movies views copyright as "more of a detriment than its worth"? The only reason that revenue stream is possible is because of copyright and the sync royalties paid out on them. >"...but do you really believe copyright/patent law ha…

> The only reason that revenue stream is possible Enforcement is not a requirement to possibility. Quite a few people make money with copyleft works. Even so, it is difficult, because strongly enforced copyright, and propaganda have created a culture that tries desperately to require copyright. > Not every instance of copyright usage is automatically detrimental to society. Of course not! But many are: I can't watch…

>"Enforcement is not a requirement to possibility."

That statement is gibberish. Today an artists are able to get paid because their creative output becomes an asset by virtue of a copyright. An artists can and many do start their own publishing and record companies are fully in control of their copyright regime.

>"I can't watch Netflix in 1080p using Linux because of DRM." DRM and copyright are orthogonal.

>"I can't start a P2P music streaming service like Spotify did, because I don't have the capitol to pay for licenses."

No you can go to Media Net and get your streaming service up and running pretty quickly for as little as $1K a month only increase royalties as your service grows. See:

http://www.mndigital.com/

Re: Spotify hit with $1.6B copyright lawsuit

#310
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Disney stories (including Snow White) are copied from earlier works by authors unaffiliated with Disney.

Copied? Snow White was a groundbreaking feat of animation brilliance, a result of tireless effort, craftsmanship and detail that experts widely agree rivals any animation project produced to date. It was literally the first feature-length color animated film with sync audio ever produced, and you’re cutting it down for it’s screenplay being inspired by a fairy tale? This is no weakness. This is consistent with filmma…

> This is consistent with filmmaking tradition and the nature of humanities efforts in general.

It was consistent with filmmaking tradition when Snow White was made. It's not anymore because the previous century's worth of work is locked up behind essentially perpetual copyright.

Disney used public domain works as inspiration but then pulled up the ladder behind them so that future artists can't do the same.

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