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Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

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Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#301

Post by TheRealPomax »

UmmNope wrote: post #290
UmmNope wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the opposite of comforting

Well it is - one could expect this sort of crap pushed by marketing/bizdev via management but the fact that Mozilla engineers actively collaborated on this is a sign of deep normative inadequacy among the people who are supposed to be the last line of defense against this sort of thing.

You seem to either not understand or ignore that even in a company like Mozilla, there are decisions made by marketing that end up having to be implemented by engineers. It might be a non-profit, but it's a non-profit corporation with salaried employees, not a loose assembly of people purely in it for the love of a browser. If the incredibly high up people say X needs to happen, you make X happen.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#302

Post by lenzm »

UmmNope wrote: post #298
kryptiskt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major problem is that they installed an add-on without properly communicating what it was. A somewhat smaller problem but still a big problem is that was an utterly frivolous add-on that shouldn't have been pushed to people who didn't explicitly want it. But the biggest problem is that Mozilla seems to have trouble understanding why any of those two would be a problem, I want my browser vendor to be serious and n…

The major problem was building a feature into the product that allowed for pushing add-ons without users knowledge much less active consent in the first place, there is no benign use for this kind of functionality.

You could use add-ons to manage optional functionality a la Atom. Users can enable and disable add-ons to customize their browser and some come enabled by default. If you were migrating to this method of customization it would absolutely make sense to push an enabled add-on that replaces functionality you took out of the main app.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#303

Post by TheRealPomax »

UmmNope wrote: post #298
kryptiskt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major problem is that they installed an add-on without properly communicating what it was. A somewhat smaller problem but still a big problem is that was an utterly frivolous add-on that shouldn't have been pushed to people who didn't explicitly want it. But the biggest problem is that Mozilla seems to have trouble understanding why any of those two would be a problem, I want my browser vendor to be serious and n…

The major problem was building a feature into the product that allowed for pushing add-ons without users knowledge much less active consent in the first place, there is no benign use for this kind of functionality.

you mean the automatic update process, which can change every single byte of every file in every directory under Firefox's control? Because unless you want to live in a world where your browser can't automatically apply security patches and upgrade critical components, the fact that the application can update itself is very much not the actual problem (and with the new web extension addon system rathern than the old XUL system, addons are actually way less security-compromising-in-potentio than updates to the actual browser itself)

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#304

Post by dang »

revelation wrote: post #287
callahad wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tweet sounds like doublespeak, but Directory Tiles really did have some genuinely good ideas mixed in with the bad. I don't know how far we got with it, but one of the ideas was to serve a generic bundle of ads, and then select which ones to display locally, based on an entirely private, client-side analysis of the browser's history. Now, that probably shouldn't have been on the new tab page, and probably not in…

You think because your code is running native you can spy on me better for ad purposes, and that's a feature? That is just tone-deaf.

This breaks the HN guidelines. Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: we've had to warn you a lot. Continuing to break the guidelines ends in bannage, so please clean up your act.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#305

Post by Grollicus »

kryptiskt wrote: post #267
blauditore wrote: post #170

Many people seem to be shocked because Mozilla installed an add-on automatically. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter since the code is coming from Mozilla - they're building the whole browser, so they could introduce functionality anywhere. If someone distrusts their add-ons, why trust their browser at all? The main question is what behavior is being introduced. I haven't researched deeply, but apparently the ad…

The major problem is that they installed an add-on without properly communicating what it was. A somewhat smaller problem but still a big problem is that was an utterly frivolous add-on that shouldn't have been pushed to people who didn't explicitly want it. But the biggest problem is that Mozilla seems to have trouble understanding why any of those two would be a problem, I want my browser vendor to be serious and n…

> I want my browser vendor to be serious and not play silly games that can so easily backfire.

I would not care about silly stuff, like say a christmas easter egg. But this wasn't meant as a silly joke.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#306

Post by TheRealPomax »

leeoniya wrote: post #249
y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't researched deeply, but apparently the add-on does nothing until the user opts-in on studies. It adds some css to a list of words: https://github.com/gregglind/addon-wr/blob/da464ac8f1c3b0894...

i'm on nightly and the default was to opt me in. that's some shady shit. i'm pissed. mozilla is rapidly burning through over a decade of hard-earned trust and goodwill. i install firefox on other people's machines. i'm not a good user to piss off. am i gonna have to wait for servo to mature and make an unmozillad servo? what a sad reality that would be. this is not the browser we were looking for.

if you're on Nightly, this is literally what you signed up for: all the experimental settings and all new functionality turned on by default so that you can be part of the test bed of users and devs that can report back to the larger developer community through Bugzilla when things aren't working the way they should be. Complaining about the fact that Nightly did exactly what it's supposed to is kind of ridiculous.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#307

Post by jordigh »

callahad wrote: post #299
UmmNope wrote: post #211

Mozilla takes in about half a billion dollars per year, has anyone considered the consideration for which this money is being paid ?

That's FUD. Mozilla is a 501(c)3 non-profit, and our audited financial statements and IRS Form 990 can be found at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/

Mozilla is... both. There's the Mozilla Foundation which is a nonprofit and the Mozilla Corporation which is very much not.

I've never quite understood what each Mozilla does, but AIUI, the Firefox development is all done by Mozilla Corp and the nonprofit does stuff like make those cute videos about how Firefox is going to save the world and make us all smiley and multiethnic.

I've talked to a number of Mozilla employees, and they also seem confused about the relationship between the corp and the foundation.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#308

Post by issaria »

MikkoFinell wrote: post #197
pythonaut_16 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does a lot of things but they've never betrayed my trust by installing an extension in conjunction with a third party without telling me. Google does track a lot of my data but they provide useful services in exchange, and in addition they make it pretty easy to see what data they have on me. Also Google's data is its competitive advantage so our interest in protecting my data from 3rd parties is aligned. In s…

Thanks, thats the funniest thing I've read all week.

You missed the joke.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#309

Post by rhys91 »

acqq wrote: post #250
Ajedi32 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking over [the contributors list][1], looks like the plugin was written entirely by Mozilla employees. So, no "Mr Robot marketing department", as some commenters here have been speculating. [1]: https://github.com/gregglind/addon-wr/graphs/contributors

It's technicality. The description is still: "Looking Glass is a collaboration between Mozilla and the makers of Mr. Robot to provide a shared world experience." It doesn't matter who technically coded it. "Mr Robot marketing department" was obviously deciding about its existence, behavior and content -- if that description is true. But looking at the source of the extension, I find the following URLs inside: https:/…

I'm not sure why this is downvoted. I work in advertising as a conceptual creative. My entire career is about creating ideas like this for brands.

An art director and copywriter sat in a room together over two days and came up with lots of different ideas to generate PR for Mr. Robot. They presented the ideas to a creative director, who went through the work and picked the one he felt was most suitable. They presented it to the client, who supported the idea.

There would have been some line of communication from the creative agency, whoever owns Mr Robot, a media/PR agency and Mozilla. The idea was bought by the client, had the agency liaise with media/PR, got in touch with Mozilla with an undisclosed donation and the add-on was coded.

Re: Unknown Mozilla dev addon "Looking Glass 1.0.3" on browser

#310

Post by ubernostrum »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #187
blauditore wrote: post #170

Many people seem to be shocked because Mozilla installed an add-on automatically. In my opinion, it doesn't really matter since the code is coming from Mozilla - they're building the whole browser, so they could introduce functionality anywhere. If someone distrusts their add-ons, why trust their browser at all? The main question is what behavior is being introduced. I haven't researched deeply, but apparently the ad…

If this were the first incident, and they quickly backtracked on it, then maybe we can give them a pass. But this isn't the first case of somewhat shady behavior. Remember the "user-enhancing" sponsored tiles a few years ago? https://twitter.com/dherman76/status/433320156496789504 > Excited to share the launch of @mozilla @firefox Tiles program, the first of our user-enhancing programs The problem there wasn't just t…

There are things I don't agree with that Mozilla does, but I will stand up for that one. The idea behind the "tiles" was to try to figure out a way to do privacy-respecting ads. And if you look at how it actually worked... it was actually a really good plan for how that could happen.

Mozilla's job is to find ways to push the web forward in ways that respect humans, and ads are, well, how the web mostly gets funded. So it's entirely within bounds for them to try to figure out ways to make ads work without invading people's privacy.

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