The Big Vitamin D Mistake • Hacker News Board

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#301

Post by michaelbuckbee » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:26 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #278

deepGem wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NIH guys also did a study that said that even in tropical countries, Vitamin D absorption has fallen dramatically because of lifestyle changes. One of the probable factors is the lust for fair skin. I routinely see people covered from head to toe to help them stay fair skinned, even kids are sent to play covered in full sleeve clothing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897581/

> One of the probable factors is the lust for fair skin. I think this must be cultural. Certainly in my experience in the United States, the lust is for tanned skin. There are even tanning salons, where one can lie down in a machine which floods one's skin with UV. Now, I personally love fair skin, and have never understood why others seem to love a tan so much.

Tanning salons are on a steep downturn [1] (at least the UV ones, spray tans are a different thing).

1 - https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-tanning-salon-indust...

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#302

Post by netcraft » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:26 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #295

netcraft wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is per day? I have been deficient for a few years now and I take ~6000 IU per day, but it doesnt seem to make a big difference in my blood tests. I already thought 6K was a lot...

Are you taking it with food? I think it dissolves in fat, so you might want to take it with some oil for better absorption.

I didnt know that - I usually take it shortly after breakfast, but ill try this - thanks!

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#303

Post by blurbleblurble » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:32 PM UTC

If you're looking for a better way to get vitamin D from supplements, try drops instead of pills. Each drop contains ~1000 IU, so you could get around 40,000 IU with just a dropper-full... For most of us, a week's worth of 40,000 IU/day could really be a boost.

"Taking 50,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity. This level is many times higher than the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for most adults of 600 IU of vitamin D a day.Feb 5, 2015" (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...)

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#304

Post by exhilaration » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:34 PM UTC

dwich wrote: post #76

noahdesu wrote: post #45

Has anyone had experience ordering blood work (e.g. the vitamin d 25 hydroxy test) without visiting a doctor? I've seen very few references to the set of sites that pop up first online [0, 1, 2, 3] when I've gone looking for reviews in the past. Any suggestions? I'm in CA. [0]: https://www.privatemdlabs.com [1]: http://www.directlabs.com/ [2]: https://www.walkinlab.com/ [3]: https://www.health-tests-direct.com/

I've tried DirectLabs, WalkInLabs, and Life Extension, and have been happy with them all. All of those companies are basically just "doctor ordering resellers" for the two big test labs (LabCorp and Quest), so you generally don't have to worry about the quality of the testing. I specifically use Life Extension for vitamin D because they're the cheapest one I'm aware of.

Can you tell me which one of those uses Quest? I used Life Extension as well for vitamin D but had to go pretty far to get to a LabCorp facility. I've got a Quest facility a few minutes away I'd rather go to.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#305

Post by ptero » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:35 PM UTC

exhilaration wrote: post #193

baq wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an hour of sunshine a day?

Except during the summer months, the skin makes little if any vitamin D from the sun at latitudes above 37 degrees north (in the United States, the shaded region in the map) or below 37 degrees south of the equator. People who live in these areas are at relatively greater risk for vitamin D deficiency. Check out the map: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-for-more...

I saw the quoted text, but missed any explanation. I would love a clarification on whether they claim the skin is not getting exposed to sun or, even when exposed, does not make any vitamin D, which is how I read the above.

This is an honest question -- if it is the first, I am not too concerned. I grew up in a colder climate and, while living far in the shaded area today, routinely wear short sleeves and walk a lot outside from early spring to late fall. If it is the second, I would love to learn the underlying causes at least as a scientific curiosity (and start thinking about vitamin D supplements).

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#306

Post by myth_drannon » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #285

icelancer wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I know it sounds downright crazy, but it's possible that someone who's studied medicine and practiced it for years, actually knows better than random anonymous forum users. As the link in the OP actually denotes, no, that's not always the case. Bodybuilders and performance trainers - as well as Soviet Union sports scientists - have known for decades that Vitamin D supplementation is vital. This has been rejected by…

I don’t think that the drug regimes of the Soviet Olympic Teams should be held up as a good example to follow - a lot of damage was done to a lot of people. On a related note, the Russian team just got banned for trying that crap again. http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/news/russia-banned-from-2...

That was mostly political decision, many American/Norwegian/... are legally taking performance enhancing drugs.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#307

Post by bluGill » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:38 PM UTC

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #225

Spooky23 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who work outside don’t get skin cancer. People who cook themselves for fun do. If they did, we would know, because workers compensation would be paying for it.

My electrician father who spent several years working on rooftops in Houston and developed skin cancer on his hand at 51 would beg to differ.

Antidotes are not data. We have no reason to believe from your story that your would not have got skin cancer if he had spent all his time in a cave. Or maybe he wouldn't have, because he would have died of something even worse at 45.

Science is trying to work this out, it is complex. We know that sun exposure both protects from and causes skin cancer depending on the study. This is a complex subject, the only thing I think I can safely say is don't get a sunburn.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#308

Post by fasteo » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:44 PM UTC

ravar wrote: post #15

Throwing in my two cents. I used to suffer from seasonal mood swings, since taking a daily multivitamin this has been the best winter of my life.

You should try cod liver oil ("tran" for Norwegians). It has been the traditional food to combat SAD in their long winters.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#309

Post by batter » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

pauljurczak wrote: post #106

noahdesu wrote: post #45

Has anyone had experience ordering blood work (e.g. the vitamin d 25 hydroxy test) without visiting a doctor? I've seen very few references to the set of sites that pop up first online [0, 1, 2, 3] when I've gone looking for reviews in the past. Any suggestions? I'm in CA. [0]: https://www.privatemdlabs.com [1]: http://www.directlabs.com/ [2]: https://www.walkinlab.com/ [3]: https://www.health-tests-direct.com/

In case you have a health insurance - many plans provide a free yearly preventive care doctor visit, which include basic blood lab work. I took advantage of it many times with different insurance companies.

I'm not sure it applies to US where Health Insurance is rather russian roulette when you need coverage. Not sure about Aetna, but BlueCross is pretty clear: "BCBSNC will provide coverage for testing serum vitamin D levels when it is determined to be medically necessary because the medical criteria and guidelines noted below are met." https://www.bcbsnc.com/assets/services/public/pdfs/medicalpo...

I just recently have been struggling with coverage of Vitamin D test for kid with Celiac.

Re: The Big Vitamin D Mistake

#310

Post by logfromblammo » Thu, Dec 07, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

Styn wrote: post #117

rmm wrote: post #97

I have been taking 5000IU Vitamin D for the past 7 years, with a little more over the winter months. It's stupidly cheap, I get 360 5000IU capsules for $13, so it has cost me less than $100 over that period. Anecdotally, it was a game changer for me personally. I got less sick during the winter, and my overall wellbeing improved greatly. A word of advice, increase Vitamin K intake aswell. Vitamin D helps calcium abso…

Word of advice: don't take vitamins ADEK without advice from a physician for extended periods or in high doses. These are fat soluble so you can have too much of them.

This advice is not useful when physicians exist that will tell you a non-useful thing--or even a wrong thing--according to current consensus among nutrition specialists, because nutrition is not their specific area of expertise.

For instance, overdose quantities may be different among the various vitamers of a specific vitamin. Your physician will advise you not to supplement ADEK because people have overdosed on retinol or ergocalciferol, whereas you can eat carotene until you literally turn orange, and 15-30 minutes of daily midday sunlight can make 10000 to 20000 IU each time.

The danger of vitamin D oversupply (even as cholecalciferol) is calcium related, which is why you have to balance it with vitamin K (as menatetrenone), but it's called vitamin K from the German for "clotting factor", so then your doctor worries about clots. But vitamin E (as RRR-alpha-tocopherol) is also an anticoagulant. It's almost as if you have to consider every vitamin as just one part of a balanced system of nutrition...

So in order to give you good advice, your doctor would have to have detailed and intimate knowledge of your current nutritional state and your physiology, but we only have 15 minutes and I don't want a malpractice suit for giving you the wrong advice, so just f' it and give 'em the boilerplate: "You don't need to supplement. Just eat a balanced diet with plenty of dark green vegetables, and get some exercise."

So there you go. I just saved you a copay, unless your particular physician has an interest in nutrition-based medicine.

Don't get your vitamins from the corner pharmacy or the grocery store. Most of them will use the cheapest chemical that technically qualifies as a particular vitamin. You need specific vitamers if you intend to exceed the general recommendations. Do your own research, and remember that you can damage your own body by doing something stupid with it. If you consult a physician, make sure they have enough training and education to be credible with respect to nutrition and biochemistry before you fork over money for an office visit. You can read the same articles and papers that they read, if you are motivated enough to do so.