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Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

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Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if Amazon stop running well then someone else will come along and replace them Is this really true though? Over the past few decades we've seen that if a company is big enough, and it fails, the government will step in and prop it up with a bailout.

If that's the case, it's not a free-market economy, and you won't get those benefits of the free-market economy.

It's weird to me to see "if that's the case" followed by an explanation of a possible bad outcome, written as if nobody has said this and it needs an explanation. It's a quite old idea. I have for many years heard the political left decry: we get socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. The Wikipedia page on "corporate welfare" says Ralph Nader used the term in 1956 -- which is much older than I thought having only been exposed to it ~20 years ago.

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#302
Some quotes from a 3 month old article about Amazon and physical grocery[1]

“The whole premise [of online grocery] is that you’re saving people a trip to the store, but people actually like going to the store to buy groceries.”

“A bunch of smart people at Amazon have been thinking about re-imagining the next phase of physical retail. They want more share of the wallet, and habitual, frequent use of Amazon for groceries is the ultimate goal.”

"Long term, a stronger grocery business could position Amazon to become a wholesale food-distribution business serving supermarkets, convenience stores, restaurants, hotels, hospitals and schools. "

"A group of Amazon executives met late last year to discuss the disadvantage Amazon faced compared with grocery competitors such as Wal-Mart and Kroger because of its lack of physical stores and customer apprehension about buying fresh foods online. They decided they needed something more to jump-start Amazon’s grocery push beyond plans already under way for the Amazon Go convenience store, modeled for urban areas, and drive-in grocery pick-up stations suited for the suburbs."

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-20/inside-am...

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#303
post #19
post #10

Oof. I wonder what this means for Whole Foods culture and employees. If you don't know, John Mackey, the CEO / founder, is a major believer in conscious capitalism and of empowering his employees. Whole Food employees get paid pretty darn well with some crazy good benefits for their industry and line-of-work (UNION FREE most of the time too!). WF banks on them being true believers and motivators of the cause - includ…

It's nice to see non-union employees treated well and paid well, not because of any negative feelings toward unions or unionization, but because I think it shows that you can be a successful capitalist without trying to suck every ounce of productivity and profit out of your lowest-paid employees.

I agree. I just heard this [1] podcast about the Oneida company. It was one of the first companies to show that paying and treating the lowest-paid employees very well and being very profitable are not mutually exclusive.

[1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/06/09/532303452/episo...

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#304

https://twitter.com/dkberman/status/875701677504024576 "Amazon did not just buy Whole Foods grocery stores. It bought 431 upper-income, prime-location distribution nodes for everything it does."

Meh.

This deal is about expansion, not about tapping into 431 measly location. Amazon knows they can set up satellite warehouses a lot faster and cheaper than they can create a store.

Let's be clear. Whole Foods is not a commodity food supplier. They enjoy high margins because they have cultivated quality and consciousness into their products. They did to food what Apple did to computers. They added the right mix of intangibles with a sense of mission and purpose that people can many buy into. Add on top of that, and Whole Foods adds an expertise procuring a catalog of high-end suppliers for both packages and fresh foods and the safe handling of those foods.

This deal should significantly improve Amazon's food delivery offerings. As a food snob and target demographic, I can say this will significantly improve my chances of using Amazon's food delivery service. I've used it in the past, but wasn't satisfied because I was disappointed with the quality and selection. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't great.

I suspect most people will not be willing to buy the high-end products, but that's not the point. The point is the high-end/high-margin products will be available so shoppers won't have to go out and do supplementary shopping to get the "good stuff". If online grocery shopping is going to become viable, they need to make sure they reduce the need for supplementary shopping as much as possible. Having a leg and data from a real grocery store will help them figure out what they need to do to improve.

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good old investors, so short sighted, they only care about the next 3 months. Whole Foods probably would have been better off as private company, especially with the culture they were trying to create.

> Good old investors, so short sighted, they only care about the next 3 months. Yeah, darn those investors. How dare people with pensions, 401k's, IRAs, and other investments expect some kind of return on their investment? It's disgraceful. /s EDIT: The sentiment against investors is rather ironic considering the amount of equity collectively held by HN readers.

The idea that I can't criticize pathological behaviors by investors because I myself invest in things makes about as much sense as saying I can't criticize bad US policies because I live in the US.

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#306
post #72

I wonder how long until the first beta of Elastic Grocery System?

How long till somebody develops the UBER of groceries? Your neighbour could do your shopping for you.

That is what Instacart and Shipt are. Marketplaces that pair people who don't want to go to the grocery store with people who are willing to go for them. Exchanging time for money.

Same as Uber, but instead of moving people, they're moving milk & eggs.

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major difference is that if Amazon stop running well then someone else will come along and replace them. Whereas government is a monopoly, so if it runs badly then it doesn't automatically get replaced. Now, democracy is supposed to fix this, by allowing you to vote for a different supplier of government every few years. But because of the voting system in some countries (like the US and the UK) it's actually rea…

Which is why we need instant-runoff voting in the US, so we can vote for third party candidates but still choose between the top two candidates if our preferred candidate loses.

There is no doubt that IRV would be superior to what we use today, plurality voting.

However, if we achieve the momentum necessary to reform voting in the United States, it would be a shame to squander that momentum to receive IRV rather than an easier and better model such as Score voting or Approval voting.

More on the matter: http://electology.org/approval-voting-versus-irv

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#308
post #10

Oof. I wonder what this means for Whole Foods culture and employees. If you don't know, John Mackey, the CEO / founder, is a major believer in conscious capitalism and of empowering his employees. Whole Food employees get paid pretty darn well with some crazy good benefits for their industry and line-of-work (UNION FREE most of the time too!). WF banks on them being true believers and motivators of the cause - includ…

> If you don't know, John Mackey, the CEO / founder, is a major believer in conscious capitalism and of empowering his employees. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/whole-foods-ceo-oba... > “It’s more like fascism,” Mackey recently told NPR. “In fascism, the government doesn’t own the means of production, but they do control it — and that’s what’s happening with our health care programs and these reforms.” > Ma…

Obamacare is obviously closer to socialism, I think that was one of the main goals. His full article adds more context: http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/blog/john-mackeys-blog/healt...

I disagree with almost every word of it, but I don't think it contradicts the idea of "conscious capitalism" or treating your employees well.

He also sort of regrets his "fascism" comment:

> "Well, I think that was a bad choice of words on my part ... that word has an association with of course dictatorships in the 20th century like Germany and Spain, and Italy. What I know is that we no longer have free enterprise capitalism in health care, it's not a system any longer where people are able to innovate, it's not based on voluntary exchange. The government is directing it. So we need a new word for it. I don't know what they right word is," Mackey says.

- http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/01/16/169413848/who...

Although, fascism doesn't just have "an association" with dictatorships, that's literally what it means. Government controlling industry is basically a side effect.

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#309
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Amazon has been developing technology for walk in, and walk out checkout, and owns a robotics company, there might be a lot less of them.

Indeed, I think this is precisely the point.

As a loyal Whole Foods shopper I am EXTREMELY excited by this development. The worst part about grocery shopping anywhere is waiting in line. There are a ton of jobs at Whole Foods that have nothing to do with running the cash register, and as long as Amazon keeps those jobs intact I am all for the automation revolution.

I have never worked as a cashier, but I can't imagine it's a very fun job. Automating out those jobs seems like a win-win, as long as the former cashiers can find a job doing something else.

Edit: For anyone wondering where my perspective is coming from, see this: http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-go-grocery-store-futur...

Re: Amazon to Acquire Whole Foods for $13.7B

#310
post #10

Oof. I wonder what this means for Whole Foods culture and employees. If you don't know, John Mackey, the CEO / founder, is a major believer in conscious capitalism and of empowering his employees. Whole Food employees get paid pretty darn well with some crazy good benefits for their industry and line-of-work (UNION FREE most of the time too!). WF banks on them being true believers and motivators of the cause - includ…

Hopefully it is mostly a strategy for Amazon to cover another type of business amd another type of selling point. Broadening their spectrum. Hopefully.
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