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UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

theguardian.com

301–310 of 336 posts

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brexit is more important than college fees. Is it, really? People say things like this a lot at the moment, but the objective reality is that for a lot of graduates in the current tuition fees and student loans system, they are leaving university already tens of thousands of pounds in debt. Earning anything resembling a "normal" graduate salary -- which of course isn't guaranteed these days -- they will then be makin…

It is. Nationalism is on the march, and with it war won't be far away. We're looking at a disintegration of the Western order and the rise of China and a threat from Russia, and a self-interested USA. I don't think the individual countries of Western Europe have a hope standing alone; they will have their arms twisted and they'll toe someone else's line, like it or not, if they can't band together.

I agree that certain forms of nationalism and an aggressive Russia are real and significant concerns, but I don't see how Brexit is going to make much difference to either of them.

There were always unpleasant people using nationalism as cover for doing unpleasant things, even though the current sentiment in many western countries has brought them a higher profile. They're still a relatively small minority, they've never amounted to much before, and I don't see them achieving much in the long term either, even if they cause nasty irritation for a while. More generally, broader nationalist sentiment might lead to a more isolationist foreign policy for a while, with the pros and cons that brings, but talk of that getting us into a war any time in the near future seems hyperbolic.

Russian aggression in Eastern Europe seems a greater and more urgent threat in terms of geopolitical stability, but then NATO seems a more likely forum to moderate that influence than the EU. Given that even NATO has had a limited effect on Putin so far, I don't see the UK's membership or otherwise of the EU making much difference to anything in this respect. With the US not knowing what its foreign policy is from one day to the next under Trump and with many of the other relatively powerful European nations systematically underinvesting in defence for years, I think there are much more influential factors that would need to change here before Brexit started to have much relevance in this context.

Meanwhile, with the tuition fees and student loans system we now have and with current inflation rates, we're talking about crippling around half of a whole generation economically, possibly for their entire lives. I'm already somewhat concerned that inequality and generational conflict could lead to widespread disorder within the next few years here at home, regardless of anything going on abroad. The effects of Brexit surely wouldn't help with that, but I don't believe any outcome in relation to Brexit (including completely stopping it) would fix these deep problems in our own society or their long term consequences either.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#302
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get this line of thinking at all. In any coalition compromises are required. Yes the Lib Dems made a campaign promise not to increase tuition fees. But (and this is important), they DID NOT WIN the general election so therefore did not have a strong mandate for those promises. Somehow the Lib Dems get all the blame for increased tuition fees as if it was their idea. The blame for that should lie square…

They campaigned on a promise then bailed on it and the electorate punished them. If you don't get this line of thinking then I don't know what to tell you.

Firstly it wasn't their only campaign promise. Secondly they didn't win so had no mandate. Thirdly it was a coalition and the Tories had a slightly stronger mandate. Finally they had to compromise on some things to achieve other arguably more important goals. This is how politics works. If you don't get this then I don't know what to tell you.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#303
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a party becomes more competitive by actually having voters that support it. Very few people are socialists or communists, Labour would have a lot better luck positioning themselves in liberal rather than far-left territory. I currently support the Conservatives because Labour is socialist and Lib Dems are incompetent but I'm really pretty centrist.

I currently support Labour because Conservatives have a thing for capitalism, Lib Dems are pushing social democracy as a solution and centrists don't care about it :)

What's wrong with social democracy? Socialism is basically confirmed to be invalid now.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#304
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently support Labour because Conservatives have a thing for capitalism, Lib Dems are pushing social democracy as a solution and centrists don't care about it :)

What's wrong with social democracy? Socialism is basically confirmed to be invalid now.

>Socialism is basically confirmed to be invalid now.

I don't think that's true, I still think Socialism is a solution to the problems of society structured with class (capitalism, feudalism, slavery etc.)

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#305
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They campaigned on a promise then bailed on it and the electorate punished them. If you don't get this line of thinking then I don't know what to tell you.

Firstly it wasn't their only campaign promise. Secondly they didn't win so had no mandate. Thirdly it was a coalition and the Tories had a slightly stronger mandate. Finally they had to compromise on some things to achieve other arguably more important goals. This is how politics works. If you don't get this then I don't know what to tell you.

[deleted]

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#306
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They campaigned on a promise then bailed on it and the electorate punished them. If you don't get this line of thinking then I don't know what to tell you.

Firstly it wasn't their only campaign promise. Secondly they didn't win so had no mandate. Thirdly it was a coalition and the Tories had a slightly stronger mandate. Finally they had to compromise on some things to achieve other arguably more important goals. This is how politics works. If you don't get this then I don't know what to tell you.

[deleted]

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#307
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with social democracy? Socialism is basically confirmed to be invalid now.

>Socialism is basically confirmed to be invalid now. I don't think that's true, I still think Socialism is a solution to the problems of society structured with class (capitalism, feudalism, slavery etc.)

I guess everyone is equal when we're all queuing for miles for bread.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#308
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is mostly just wishful thinking on the part of the Remain side. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-leave-... "Four per cent of Leave voters polled said they thought Brexit was the worst thing to have happened this year," The result was 51% leave 49% remain, it would be the reverse if they could vote again today.

That's assuming that no-one has shifted the other way: https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/br...

I've never seen any detailed analysis of the reasons why people voted the way they did in the EU referendum, but I can think of one good reason why people who voted to remain might now think the UK should leave: because it was a democratic vote and they think its result should be acted upon, rather than ignored. That doesn't mean they regretted voting to remain in the EU.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Corbyn playing political games? He had the overwhelming support of members in two leadership elections. The people playing political games have been those Labour MPs who have been trying to get him to stand down. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government. Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leade…

How is Corbyn playing political games? I suspect he's considering his own position and the general dissatisfaction he faces among his current crop of MPs, and he's probably figuring this is a chance to clean house a bit. I also suspect the extremely short notice given by May is designed to frustrate that effort. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government. I imagine some current Labour MPs with Blai…

I would hope that any Labour MPs who want the Tories to win rather than a Corbyn-led Labour Party would have the integrity to resign their seats and stand as Tories, instead of undermining the party from within.

Theresa May's just taking advantage of her huge poll lead, which is mostly down to a divided official opposition.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#310

She's announced her intention to call a general election. Before it can actually happen, she needs 2/3s of MPs to agree, according to the Fixed Term Parliament Act. Otherwise, it's a five-year term whether the current PM likes it or not. This is an odd one, because if we have the election then it's likely to be a Tory landslide, but the Tories have only a narrow majority in the House of Commons and so need the turkey…

Labour have already announced they will support it.

An early election can be called if 2/3 of MPs support it, OR if there's a vote of no confidence in the Government. Labour should say that they won't support it, but will support a no-confidence vote. That will only be carried if enough Tories also vote no-confidence.
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