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Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

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Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? Many tech jobs can't be done effectively in India or overseas with low quality labor for any number of reasons. The 250 American workers for Disney had their jobs replaced in the US, not by overseas workers. > "These engineers will still be part of the labor pool, they'll just be doing work for our foreign competitors" Well, let them work for Samsung instead of Apple then. > "One of my H!B h…

Letting them work for Samsung lowers our standard of living.

Please explain.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#303

> overestimation of Russia's danger on the US and EU Depends what you mean by “EU”. Western Europe? Sure, Russia maybe isn't a big deal for them. But the Baltic states, which are EU and NATO member states, understandably consider their next-door neighbour a huge threat.

> Depends what you mean by “EU”. Western Europe? Sure

It also depends on what you mean by danger. Are Western European EU countries in jeopardy of being invaded by Russia? Probably not. But considering Russia's position as supplier of most of Europe's natural gas and a big chunk of its oil, danger can have many meanings.

The most plausible explanation I've heard for the situation in Syria involves a proposed pipeline from Qatar that would challenge Russia's position as primary natural gas supplier to Europe. Russia has been propping up Assad, since he's against the pipeline. Western countries, including the US, have wanted him gone so that a more pipeline-friendly regime can be put in place. There's a cold war being fought between Europe/US and Russia in Syria, and ISIS stepping into that power vacuum has been the result. And while that's not an existential danger to Europe, just ask the French how safe they feel. And the refugee crisis hasn't exactly been pleasant for Western Europe either.

Meanwhile, Russia also wants to tap oil reserves in their arctic areas but wants help from Exxon to do it. That requires the US dropping its sanctions. Hence Russia's involvement in getting Putin-friendly Trump elected and Exxon exec Tillerson as Secretary of State.

The reality is that Russia is a petrostate ruled by oligarchs who are intent on exploiting those resources to their fullest. Russia will do everything in its power to thwart transitions to alternative fuels. And it is more than willing to use its military to promote its interests in third-world countries. This isn't unlike what the US does, but to anyone who cares about the environment, it should be a very scary thought, since the Russian agenda means increasing our effect on climate change. Equating Russian danger to military aggression against the West is probably overly simplistic and ignores the primary dangers of Russia. The true dangers are likely more subtle forms of advocating their interests.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Google, Facebook, Cisco would gladly sponsor you for green card - if they're gaming the system they would surely try to string you along until you've used up your H1B renewal before doing that?

If you start out making much less than other candidates, even after many years of CoL raises you will still be making less. Source: drastically underpaid for my experience because I was an idiot.

At one of the big Silicon Valley tech companies? Google at least has a policy that promotions & annual raises normalize to level-defined salary bands, i.e. if you have a higher salary coming in relative to your coworkers of equal skill, you will get smaller raises until your salaries equalize.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#305
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all of the political candidates, only Trump and Sanders spoke out against H1-B visa abuse used to depress wages. (Former) Presidential Candidate Senator Marco Rubio of Florida wanted to triple the number of H1-B visas to 250,000 from 85,000 and accepted $2 million donation from Disney. Disney of Florida had recently replaced 250 US IT workers with foreigners on H1-B. Trump especially spoke out against this move. C…

> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks Okay, I get it, Clinton bad etc. But Trump has appointed tons of people from Goldman to his administration[1] and filed an executive order against financial industry regulations[2] - you know the regulations put in place after the last Wall Street crash, to prevent a similar crash? Can we stop pretending that Trump isn't bought off by Goldman now? [1] http://www.ny…

Not a Trump fan at all here, but technically I think it's more the other way around. Trump is buying up Goldman, rather than they buying him. I have yet to see a clear line of influence from Goldman to Trump personally. It seems more like he's hiring old buddies for potential future favors from them. Reverse lobbying! You heard it here first!

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about simply allowing H-1Bs to change jobs if they get an offer from another company, and giving them a sufficient window to find something new if they leave their current company? The no-recourse indentured servitude relationship that makes people dependent on a company for their residency takes away all the employee's negotiating power. If we could change this, I expect that wages would begin to even out.

They can. It's just painful and depending on the competency of both companies legal counsel, it can take months. We've had employees accept offers with a start date, only the visa transfers weren't finished yet so they started MONTHS after the expected start date.

It probably needs to be made easier then, so the H1B can switch jobs as easily as a native worker.

I have not had to deal with US immigration, but my impression is the H1B process is between the employer and the government. It would probably help to make that between the employee and the government, to give the employee more control.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind phrasing your question a little more clearly, please?

I'm just confused as to what you actually want to see happen to the SV bully-boys. The democrats (as far as I can tell) have had little to no actual effect on coal or guns but your comment makes it sound like they've been able to rein them in or bust them up or something. I was kind of making a joke because to me the democrats have been largely ineffective against coal and guns. Thats not necessarily their fault, to…

>I'm just confused as to what you actually want to see happen to the SV bully-boys.

I'd love to see the value of their businesses destroyed through zealous over-regulation. I'd love to see the IRS target them for audits the way Obama's IRS targeted conservative groups. I'd love for them to be criminally prosecuted, and -- dare I dream? -- jailed for any violations of the tax code that might be uncovered. That would wipe the smug off their faces.

The political left in America no longer employs persuasion as their primary means of gaining and maintaining political power. Instead, they attempt to inflict social or financial punishment on their political enemies to shut them up. Recall the reaction when Peter Thiel had the audacity to support a presidential candidate they opposed. Google [memories pizza] for another example.

So if that is how the game is played these days, then I want the right to use the same tactics against the left, and inflict massive pain on them until they offer a truce.

I'm basically an Adam Smith free-market libertarian. I think the country, as a whole, would be better off if the cap on H1Bs was lifted entirely. Productive, tax-paying, wealth-creating people would flood into this country and enrich it.

But politics is war these days. And Airbnb is more than just an enterprise, it's a wing of the Democratic party. So I think the Republicans should, to paraphrase Obama, "punish [their] enemies and reward [their] friends."

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point was that the impact of using non-American labor was essentially nil in every study ever done. My point was that replacing a $25 / hr union factory worker who has healthcare and PTO, with a $2/hr factory worker in a "suicide sweatshop" is not nil. You said that in general, the replacement workers are just economic spenders too, and I provided a counter example (don't seem like these Chinese workers are like…

Okay, I now see what you are saying. So let's take apart those two points. You might be asking how could replacing a $25 worker with a $2 worker -- foreign, domestic, etc doesn't matter -- have no economic impact on jobs and wages? So one might argue the following: The company paying the $25 to the first worker, now has $23 in profit/savings. What happens to that money? They might reinvest it, they might pay it out a…

"from an economic perspective the net impact of jobs and wages has not been significant."

I suppose you mean "from a global financial economic perspective". And you are right, of course: income equals expenditure.

From a economic local perspective, you have now a worker that before won 25$ and now doesn't. He is pissed off, and it's going to vote somebody that looks angry too.

You have 23$ in profit that will go (with a short stop in Ireland first) to buy an empty condo-mine in London or will be invested in places with 2$ waves in order to repeat the operation.

But, yes, the USA commercial deficit is totally the fault of the Chinese.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#309
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all of the political candidates, only Trump and Sanders spoke out against H1-B visa abuse used to depress wages. (Former) Presidential Candidate Senator Marco Rubio of Florida wanted to triple the number of H1-B visas to 250,000 from 85,000 and accepted $2 million donation from Disney. Disney of Florida had recently replaced 250 US IT workers with foreigners on H1-B. Trump especially spoke out against this move. C…

> Clinton accepted $675,000 from Goldman for 3 talks Okay, I get it, Clinton bad etc. But Trump has appointed tons of people from Goldman to his administration[1] and filed an executive order against financial industry regulations[2] - you know the regulations put in place after the last Wall Street crash, to prevent a similar crash? Can we stop pretending that Trump isn't bought off by Goldman now? [1] http://www.ny…

There is a big difference between selling out Americans to be replaced by foreigners whether H1-B as in Disney, Silicon Valley, and Wall Street or illegal immigrants replacing working class American jobs and depressing working class jobs and what Trump is doing now with Wall Street.

If Trump were truly bought off by Goldman, he certainly would not be behind legislation that fixes the broken H1-B Visa system. Goldman, Wall Street, Silicon Valley and other firms will have to start paying market wages instead of depressed wages because of the H1-B Visa reform.

Re: Trump Is Right: Silicon Valley Using H-1B Visas to Pay Low Wages to Immigrants

#310
Every time the topic comes up, I wonder how many of the HN'ers who are cross at H-1B workers because they are depressing wages are intellectually consistent (and honest) enough to accept that this position is part and parcel of the same system of nationalist thought that leads to a wall to Mexico and steeply increased tariffs on chinese import; of "America First"?

If you find yourself reconciling the idea of protecting against wage competition from H-1Bs, but are in favour of continued undocumented immigration from Mexico (or at least opposed to taking any substantial measures against it), in favour of NAFTA remaining in place and in favour of continued trade with China under current conditions, I'd be very interested in understanding how you model that?

(There is also a critique around the specific rules of H-1B being unfair to the worker, mostly around restrictions on changing employers. I agree with most of that and don't think it inherently incompatible with other views on immigration and trade, pro or con.)

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