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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#301

Post by tptacek »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #190
susan_hall wrote: post #138

Regarding Muslims in the USA, I worry about those in government who might revive this line of thinking: "The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken." — General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command

Might be a little late for that; since 2001 nearly 4k Americans have died to Islamic terrorists.

Bringing "Islamic terrorism" up to a whopping 1.7% of all homicides over the same time period, 75% of which occurred in a single attack by less than 30 people.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#302

Post by tptacek »

brilliantcode wrote: post #117

The Japanese pre-Cold War were treated unfairly but this pales in comparison to the many hell the Asian region have suffered under Japanese Imperialism. At least they didn't get gassed like the Jews did. At least they didn't get bayonetted like the Chinese in Nanjing en masse in graves or a military unit performing live surgery on them or forcing hundreds of thousands of young Korean women to sexual slavery. It didn'…

Japanese-American citizens are, as the name suggests, American citizens, and aren't answerable to the crimes of the Empire of Japan, and so the actions of the Axis powers aren't germane to the discussions.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#303

Post by tptacek »

brilliantcode wrote: post #281
adewinter wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, it still is nowhere near the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan & Nazi Germany." The only question I have is: So? Why do you feel the need to compare what the US did to other atrocities? You can always find something worse to compare a bad act to. Nothing you said changes the fact that what the US did here was just plain wrong, it definitely shouldn't have happened, and we should do everything in our po…

I'm not trying to minimize or say what the US did was less wrong but I'm arguing against people that use this as a crutch to support their what aboutism that attempts to paint the US in the same light as Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. Clearly is night and day difference.

In fact, the exact opposite is the case: attempting to compare one of our national disgraces to the actions of Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan is itself an appeal to whataboutism --- the article we're commenting on is about the internment of Japanese-Americans, not about the Nazis.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#304

Post by CamperBob2 »

kmeade wrote: post #276
kmeade wrote: post #255

FDR's Japanese Concentration Camps? FDR's? That's a blatant attempt to simplify a historical event and manipulate the modern reader. Please spare me another rehash of how mean we became during the GOD-DAMN SECOND WORLD WAR, when our country and culture were under REAL threat. Please spend that energy examining our modern forms of prejudice and crazy fearfulness. Also -- Why does no one ever want to rehash the post-wa…

replying to myself... I want to make the point clear that I am not defending the Japanese internment. It was certainly an evil act. One of many evil acts committed by nations around the world. That's what war is -- a sequence of evil acts. On some level, we should be ashamed of all of them. What I object to is the cowardly labeling of the internment camps as "FDR's" This is a propaganda technique. We've seen it recen…

What I object to is the cowardly labeling of the internment camps as "FDR's" This is a propaganda technique.

Read the article. That's who the orders came from.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#305

Post by tptacek »

godson_drafty wrote: post #248

Whenever looking at these pictures, it's worthwhile to consider how white (or any other color) Americans living in Japan were treated after war was declared. Oh, that's right. There weren't any! The American government had some unique challenges in maximizing their chances of winning the war against a zealous and absolutely ruthless enemy (Japan). It would have been extremely irresponsible not to at least attempt to…

It is in fact not worthwhile to consider how "white Americans living in Japan" were treated, because Japanese-Americans are American citizens, simultaneously not answerable to the crimes of Imperial Japan and owed a basic obligation of the defense of their liberty by their fellow American citizens.

The internment of Japanese-Americans is a national disgrace because it harmed the fabric of the entire country, and every citizen living in it: that citizenship being in part defined by the duties and obligations we share to each other, as established by the Founders.

It was a betrayal of our founding principals, which is why every American schoolchild is taught about it.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#306

Post by cloakandswagger »

tptacek wrote: post #301
cloakandswagger wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be a little late for that; since 2001 nearly 4k Americans have died to Islamic terrorists.

Bringing "Islamic terrorism" up to a whopping 1.7% of all homicides over the same time period, 75% of which occurred in a single attack by less than 30 people.

Looking at human life so numerically is pretty twisted. At what percentage of homicides do you think that terrorism is a problem?

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#307

Post by tptacek »

cloakandswagger wrote: post #306
tptacek wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing "Islamic terrorism" up to a whopping 1.7% of all homicides over the same time period, 75% of which occurred in a single attack by less than 30 people.

Looking at human life so numerically is pretty twisted. At what percentage of homicides do you think that terrorism is a problem?

And yet, were I to point out that firearms are responsible for the majority of all homicides from 2001-2016, I'd expect you'd have a very different objection to the numbers.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#308

Post by tptacek »

hkt wrote: post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

I find your sentiment somewhat tossed-off, implying as it does that we "regularly ignore" things like Japanese-American internment camps, when in fact we teach them to elementary school children as national disgraces we hope never to repeat.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#309

Post by Turing_Machine »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #250
Turing_Machine wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide a "counter-example" where the United States murdered 100 million people. Thanks.

Easy, the mass genocide of Native Americans long before and after the ink had dried on the Constitution. You're welcome.

Sorry, not even close.

18 million would be on the high end for the estimated indigenous population of pre-Columbian North America. 90% of those were wiped out by imported diseases before the United States even existed. It would be quite a trick to murder 100 million people based on a starting population of only 1.8 million (not all of whom, or even most of whom, were killed, by any means).

It is not reasonable to blame the United States for things that happened before it existed.

Also, it is pretty much accepted nowadays that killing off indigenous people is a Bad Thing. Unfortunately, the same is not true of communism. There are still plenty of people who think it's a wonderful idea.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#310

Post by Turing_Machine »

lodi wrote: post #257
Turing_Machine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communists of various stripes murdered somewhere around 100 million people in the last century. What, exactly, counts as "overly zealous" in that context?

1) I'd like to see a breakdown of that number. 2) By the same simplistic reasoning, Americans killed 20-30 million [1] just by themselves. I'm not sure what the totals would look like after adding in the British, French, Dutch, etc. empires. 3) I'm almost certain that that 100 million figure includes revolutions caused as a direct result of imperial powers meddling in the affairs of local populations. E.g. Cambodia […

"1) I'd like to see a breakdown of that number."

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

PRC: ~77 million. USSR: ~62 million.

" By the same simplistic reasoning, Americans killed 20-30 million [1] just by themselves."

People dying as the result of enemy action in a war is not the same as them being murdered by their own government.

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