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David Cameron announces resignation

theguardian.com

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Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#301

Post by dragonwriter »

gonvaled wrote: post #122
youngtaff wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK gets to decide when they trigger the process but the 'official' process can't start until the UK triggers it. The referendum isn't actually legally binding so in theory article 50 may never get triggered, though as the vote is a reaction against politicians, that would be political suicide. The final terms will be the result of negotiation and I don't think the UK actually has a good position. The referendum w…

> The UK gets to decide when they trigger the process but the 'official' process can't start until the UK triggers it. If the UK spends the next 15 years making trouble in the EU, blocking a Brexit agreement, not taking decisions, and basically torpedoing the functioning of the EU, I hope the EU is going to do something about it. The UK was bad enough for the EU while it was in, let's not allow it to destroy the rest…

> If the UK spends the next 15 years making trouble in the EU, blocking a Brexit agreement

If they don't trigger Article 50, they have exactly the same role in the EU as if they never chose to leave (except that they lose the special concessions that they just got approved which were contingent on a "Remain" result in the referendum, which, AFAICT, is the only actual legal effect of referendum.)

Once they trigger Article 50, they are out in 2 years (barring an agreement to extend the process.) The only purpose of an exit agreement is to provide an alternative to the default exit terms, which would, e.g., leave trade relations between Britain and the EU reverting to WTO rules.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#302

Post by sangnoir »

junto wrote: post #217
corin_ wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even his choice of idiot persona is an act of genius in terms of how well it has served him.

George Bush springs to mind. Though maybe he actually was a patsy.

I suspect George Bush's bumbling persona was put-on as well (or possibly honed over years) on the basis of this youtube[1] video comparing his oratory style between 1994 and 2004

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvknGT8W5jA

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#303

Post by dragonwriter »

vijayr wrote: post #289
dragonwriter wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can someone explain what happens next? People can guess, but there's a lot of uncertainty on some points. > Will UK really leave the EU? Most likely, as I understand it, the next British government will formally start the (at least) two year process of exiting the EU. In the short term, they are still in the EU. > Will EU ask them to leave or just wait for UK to initiate the process? As I understand, under the appl…

Cameron has since said that he plans to leave that to the next PM. So he leaves a big mess to his successor?

> So he leaves a big mess to his successor?

I'm not a fan of Cameron (also, not British and don't have a particularly strong investment in this, though I tend to think Brexit was a bad idea for all involved), but I think there is a fair case to be made that leaving it to the next PM to trigger Article 50 is the right thing to do (promising an immediate trigger -- which was a scare tactic for the vote -- was a bad move.) Here's why: Article 50 provides a 2-year timeline for exit, and provides tht an exit agreement which modifies the default terms takes unanimous approval of the EU members. You want, as much as possible, to have continuous government with a clear mandate during that process so that you can effectively negotiate that agreement and not get stuck with the default terms.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#305

Post by nicolapede »

dragonwriter wrote: post #303
vijayr wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameron has since said that he plans to leave that to the next PM. So he leaves a big mess to his successor?

> So he leaves a big mess to his successor? I'm not a fan of Cameron (also, not British and don't have a particularly strong investment in this, though I tend to think Brexit was a bad idea for all involved), but I think there is a fair case to be made that leaving it to the next PM to trigger Article 50 is the right thing to do (promising an immediate trigger -- which was a scare tactic for the vote -- was a bad mov…

Also, what if the new PM has to pass through general elections? You might end up having someone which promises to trigger article 50 and someone who does not. A second referendum.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#306

Post by pc86 »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #296
mc32 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing is that regardless of who pushed for or against the UK exiting the EU the voters voted to leave. Neither Boris nor David made a unilateral decision. The people took action and voted against the EU. Lots of people are in shock but should not be.

They both rode (in turn) petty nationalism sentiments to further their own ambitions. I really don't think people's best interests have been served.

So is it better for a people to have their voice heard, and in that harm many of themselves, or to have their voice ignored "for the greater good?"

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#307

Post by dragonwriter »

msabalau wrote: post #258
Spearchucker wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that, interesting observations. Still sceptical though (not saying you're wrong), given the UK huge trade deficit and now a weak £.

A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers,which should partially mitigate the trade deficit.

> A weak pound makes british products more affordable to foreign consumers

And foreign goods less affordable to British consumers...

> which should partially mitigate the trade deficit.

Indeed.

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#308

Post by secfirstmd »

SEJeff wrote: post #286
anonymousDan wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My god there is some serious whingey nonsense on that thread. Most of the arguments boil down to accommodation being expensive for students in the centre of a relatively wealthy European capital. Well no shit, as if it's not any worse in most other cities. As a software professional you'd be well able to afford it. I do agree there is a shortage of accommodation at the moment, but that's almost certainly a temporary…

Compare it to say Berlin though, where living is extremely cheap. It seems to help with tech startups quite a bit, and not because of generous tax breaks.

It's not just tax, Ireland also has a good infrastructure for government startup grants etc.

https://www.enterprise-ireland.com

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#309

Post by secfirstmd »

secfirstmd wrote: post #199
fredley wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.

People of Ireland speaking here: -Want to stay in the EU? -Want to trade in the Eurozone? -Enjoy low corporate tax rate of 12.5%? Pro-business government? -Enjoy friendly, well educated, English speaking, Pro-American people, good beer, decent music, nice quality of life, low crime and safe green natural environment? (Look how much fun even our soccer fans are http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-banter/10-…

Also, as it might be relevant to some people on here, a link about how to claim an Irish passport:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/t...

Re: David Cameron announces resignation

#310

Post by Kliment »

DonaldFisk wrote: post #283
vacri wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain will try to block Scotland entering the EU, to fend off Catalonian separatism.

If the Scottish independence referendum had resulted in Scotland gaining independence from the UK (like Spain, then a EU country) and then applied to join, there might be a reason for Spain to worry, as that roughly mirrors the situation with Catalonia. If there's another Scottish independence referendum, Scotland would gain independence from a NON-EU country (UK) and then apply to join. This is similar to the situat…

It's also possible that Scotland's independence happens before or simultaneously with the UK's exit, in which case Scotland could remain a EU member by continuity. This would also be a good lifeline for the rest of the UK once they recover from their spell of madness - form a union with Scotland to sneak back in.
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