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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#301

Post by _AllisonMobley »

marincounty wrote: post #41
0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #20

Some people write songs about the music industry sucking. Hotel California is one (I bet). It would be fun to study this idea. Oh, another one could be Don't Download this Song by Weird Al. Edit: I wonder if Mr. Miller ever tried something like that.

When I was in college, I took my girlfriend on a summer vacation. We were both broke, so we decided to camp out along the CA coast. My car was on its last days, and the transmission didn't feel right, but we wanted that vacation. She was a great sport, as I tried to make it work. It seemed like nothing was working as I planned, except the sight of her in that bikini. I had a bunch of camping equipment, and thought, "…

I aspire to fiction that reads like that.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#302

Post by _AllisonMobley »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #286
jar3624 wrote: post #62

I really hope Ethereum takes off. I think this will go a long way of cutting out the middle men between the customer and "content maker". I even hear all the code that runs on Ethereum is open source which makes it even more transparent/turstworthy. Its the cure to capitalism ! hopefully See http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/imogen-heap-shows-how-music-smart-c...

It's not a money problem, it's a marketing one. I work alongside the music industry in the code world (won a VMA along the way) and see how labels really work. The problem isn't so much about album sales and streaming money going straight to the creator (though not enough does by a long shot) but rather that if you're not signed to a label and have access to their marketing engine then no one will ever hear your musi…

"If you're not signed to a label and have access to their marketing engine then no one will ever hear your music"

Unless you can get popular on youtube.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#303

Post by riprowan »

bmm6o wrote: post #266
riprowan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

> I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed To me this says more about the weakness of the alternatives than about the strength of Pandora. At least it's possible to hear new music on Pandora. It's sad what a lowest common denominator echo chamber terrestrial radio has become.

In the USA, the overwhelming majority of terrestrial radio is owned by ~3 corporate behemoths with profit-sharing arrangements with the Big Three labels and their thousands of subsidiaries. What used to be decentralized to the local market level is now mostly inaccessible to unsigned / independent artists. Instead radio is just a distribution network for the major labels and their subs.

Consider this typical everyday sort of press release we see in the industry all the time these days: http://www.musicrow.com/2014/03/clear-channel-bbr-music-grou...

Payola: Payola, in the music industry, is the illegal practice of payment or other inducement by record companies for the broadcast of recordings on commercial radio in which the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under U.S. law, 47 U.S.C. § 317, a radio station can play a specific song in exchange for money, but this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be counted as a "regular airplay".

Revenue sharing agreements? SMH.

Imagine you're an independent artist. That's the hurdle you have to be able to cross in order to get access to discovery platforms. This includes access to choice Spotify or YouTube playlists, satellite and Internet radio, and other conventional discovery mechanisms.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#304

Post by baldfat »

6stringmerc wrote: post #179
halotrope wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that must be one if the best guitar performances I have ever seen.

Then you may like Kaki King and/or Stanley Jordan as well. As a multi-decade player I can appreciate the technique and talent on display, I really can. However, the reason you haven't heard of him before, and others of a similar level of musicianship, is something that my Dad once told me: "Audiences don't like it when the music goes over their head." His point was that impressing other musicians is a very limited ma…

I don't know if I totally agree about that. Seeing his live concerts there is plenty of Musicians self love AKA He was a feature artist with Martin Guitars several times and music contest. Also in his concert are a ton of people who don't even know how to play guitar. The melody is strong enough to follow.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#305

Post by 6stringmerc »

baldfat wrote: post #304
6stringmerc wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you may like Kaki King and/or Stanley Jordan as well. As a multi-decade player I can appreciate the technique and talent on display, I really can. However, the reason you haven't heard of him before, and others of a similar level of musicianship, is something that my Dad once told me: "Audiences don't like it when the music goes over their head." His point was that impressing other musicians is a very limited ma…

I don't know if I totally agree about that. Seeing his live concerts there is plenty of Musicians self love AKA He was a feature artist with Martin Guitars several times and music contest. Also in his concert are a ton of people who don't even know how to play guitar. The melody is strong enough to follow.

That's fine, I just have a bit of instinct about markets and the overlap with technically flamboyant playing. Sure I've seen Tommy Emmanuel a couple times in sold out venues, but he's basically the 1% of that market. Buckethead also sort of fits too. I'm happy for your friend's success for sure, making a living is incredibly difficult in the business and the demands and travel I don't envy at all, so much respect indeed.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#306

Post by 6stringmerc »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #116
Animats wrote: post #84

Musicians getting rich was a brief phenomenon. Historically, musicians ranked below bartenders. Making phonograph records was a process with expensive tooling, manufacturing, and distribution costs. Radio was an industry with limited airtime and a small number of stations. These factors created an industry with few songs produced in large numbers, resulting in the "rock star" industry. That's over. Through heavy prom…

I don't think the future is "totally" AI generated music. Rather, I think that AI will provide tools to enable humans to make music more easily. For instance, taking a basic riff and "jazzing" it up, maybe suggesting a drumline, providing lyrical "autocomplete" suggestions based on the song's subject and rhyme structure, etc.

If you're interested, such a tool was recently debuted aimed at guitarists:

http://digitech.com/en-US/products/trio

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#307

Post by russnewcomer »

542458 wrote: post #242
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

So maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but how is Zao Solid's biggest selling album? None of Zao's albums lasted longer than a week on the billboard 200. They've had much bigger bands signed - ABR, Demon Hunter, Underoath... http://www.billboard.com/biz/search/charts?f[0]=tm_imprintla...

Long tail. I feel like I remember hearing that in 2003, Where Blood and Fire Bring Rest was still selling around 200 copies a week, five year after release. That's around 100,000 a year, and if it's selling that five years after release, that's pretty good. Plus, Billboard charts were notoriously inaccurate for Christian bookstore sales in the late 90's, early 2000s time frame, which is where a lot of Solid State distribution was.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#308

Post by drzaiusapelord »

apalmer wrote: post #210
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this ingratitude. You know Miller and Young loved Davis. Absolutely loved him, but they were in the business of making radio friendly rock music by that time and obviously very different than the jazz scene Davis lived in. Their mainstream popularity gave Davis a great venue to open up to non-jazz listeners and promote someone they admired. Davis, being a jerk himself (oh the irony of calling Miller a jerk), t…

you are absolutely right on one level, but to balance it out... really nobody involved really wanted to be at that concert as it was put together... it was purely a put together promotional gig by the record label... in other words, it wasnt really 'ingratitude' it was literally, i am not grateful because i dont want this.

Back in the day, all major label concerts were products of label management. Headlining artists had some sway to choose openers, but this wasn't an extraordinary event where Davis was hogtied and forced to play at gunpoint. More than likely Young had a hand in this out of mutual respect for Davis' immense talents.

I do see where some coercion was possible, but by 1970 Davis certainly had the political weight to turn this down if he truly didn't want to do it. The reality here is that he was past his heyday in terms of sales by then and probably wanted to revitalize his career by touring with the current popular bands. Birth of the Cool was almost 15 years old by then.

There's definitely a diva factor at play here.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#309

Post by kedean »

riprowan wrote: post #151
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…

Pandora is probably my best mode of music discovery these days, above Spotify and social suggestions. If you actively seek out more from the newer artists it suggests, you'll get good results. If you go there with a genre in mind where you already know most of the groups available, you won't get much.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#310

Post by sheepleherd »

EGreg wrote: post #248
ascendantlogic wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They own the rights to everything . I believe the RIAA gets paid even if music is played/streamed that they don't own the rights to, until the musicians come claim the money. Movies and music showed how much power they have over the last two decades once Napster and later torrenting lit a fire under their asses. It's not just our government that is in their pockets. The TPP is a good example of them using the US' pos…

What do you mean they get paid for music that is played which they don't own the rights to?? How does it even work?

I'm not an expert but I believe the industry gets paid a chunk for "radio play" in general (and things like radio play) on a per station/location basis, and then that chunk gets divided up not on the basis of what was actually played, but on the basis of how popular it is. Not saying it works, but that type of scheme sort of works for the hits, and much less well for obscure music, but obscure music probably does not get played too much.

but anyway, something like that is how they'd get paid for music they don't own.

These arrangements were worked out back when "radio" was "disrupting" the live music and recorded music industries, and people were trying to "monetize" the "eardrums"

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