San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#301

Post by MrMullen » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:12 PM UTC

msoad wrote: post #235

I live in a high rise in SF and pay $4400 for a one bedroom. Although it sounds expensive but it's like $800 more than the least expensive place we could find near this place but it's a well built apartment with lots of amenities. I thought about moving out of SF but I don't have any social connection outside of San Francisco. Plus weather is very nice here and there are lots of diverse cultural events happening in S…

That is a bit surprising. I think I have an expensive Condo in San Diego, and your rent on a one bedroom is still $1400 more than my 2 bedroom condo off of Balboa Park, 2 minutes from Downtown and 10 minutes from the beach.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#302

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:14 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #200

freyr wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily great. But for a variety of reasons, the momentum has been in SF's favor as the world's dominant technology hub. We might wonder what will happen this momentum is deflected. Technical talent will disperse, and we'll end up with a more distributed workforce? Or will it simply concentrate somewhere else? Right now, the Bay Area is in an extremely enviable position: it has a high concentration of ex…

"But for a variety of reasons, the momentum has been in SF's favor as the world's dominant technology hub." I know this is ancient history, but I keep having to remind folks that the fetish for locating tech companies in SF didn't start until the late 1990s. Then it crashed, and didn't pick up again until the mid/late 'aughts. Viewed dispassionately, the "momentum" of SF as a technology hub looks more like a fad that…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#303

Post by Apocryphon » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:14 PM UTC

Ephori wrote: post #220

At least SF still has the jobs and industry to drive the insane housing prices. Try somewhere like Vancouver where the prices are just as crazy but minus any connection to an actual economic or technological driver; there's zero industry left, zero investment, and a pervasive Stockholm syndrome where the entire city population convinces itself it's the 'best place on Earth.' It's turning into an epic ghost town of re…

Yeah, the existence of Vancouver, London, and Hong Kong's housing markets make me feel grateful that at least SF isn't that bad.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#304

Post by sologoub » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:16 PM UTC

Los Angeles got lumped in with other places in this article, but it completely misses the sprawl problem - you want to pay less? sure! Just sit in traffic!

>$569,500 in Los Angeles, Zillow data show.

If you want a decent quality of life without 1-2 hour one-way commutes and you work in tech, most likely you need to live either in Sillicon Beach (Santa Monica/Pacific Palisades to about Redondo) or Pasadena or Irvine areas. None of these are as cheap as $600k. Rents are catching up quickly as well.

If you are trading traffic for cheaper rent, Bay Area has those options too.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#305

Post by metanoia » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:21 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #288

largote wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely this, it's ridiculous how early stuff closes around here and how early people go out. Moving from Mexico it was a big shock.

This doesn't square with my perception of SV programmers always mentioning staying late to hack on their startup. Do they actually mean that they got there at 6AM, so staying until 5PM is "late?"

I don't think that it's all hackers. Without mentioning the neighborhood (because this borders on stereotype, and these things usually devolve into an x vs. x neighborhood discussion), I live in a neighborhood where people mostly hold non-technical titles like "marketing manager" and "product manager".

And they've all worked out, shopped for groceries, had breakfast, etc. before 9am.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#306

Post by Apocryphon » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:28 PM UTC

tryitnow wrote: post #300

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

If high-rise development solved the problem of high rents, then why is Manhatten so expensive? Thought experiment: Let's say we do massive high density development in SF. A bunch of people move in, but now that SF is denser it's more desirable, so demand has increased as well, which drives rents right back up. Now we're stuck where we were before: high rents. Having said that, I still support high density development…

The trick isn't to simply build up SF. Build up Oakland. Build up San Jose- have you seen our downtown? Build up on the Peninsula- (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5032555). Build it up so the Bay becomes a true tri-city area, then a city of its own, from Santa Rosa to Hollister.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#307

Post by mahyarm » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:28 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #288

largote wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely this, it's ridiculous how early stuff closes around here and how early people go out. Moving from Mexico it was a big shock.

This doesn't square with my perception of SV programmers always mentioning staying late to hack on their startup. Do they actually mean that they got there at 6AM, so staying until 5PM is "late?"

Engineers might stay up until 2am, but they stay up until 2am at home because nobody else is bugging them. If they eat, it's gonna be cheap stuff or frozen trader joes food from the freezer, more time efficient.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#308

Post by guyzero » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:29 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #85

guyzero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously that was 11 years ago. Yes, a lot of things changed in 11 years.

That's my point. 11 years may seem like a long time to you, but it's really not. I've seen quite a few people here wanting high-rise residential buildings in San Francisco to alleviate the high rents there. A skyscraper is at least 40 floors, according to wikipedia and one rule of thumb I've seen puts the construction time for them at 1 month per floor, from ground breaking to completion. That's about 4 years in cons…

In 2008 I moved out of Toronto and when I went back a few years later there were dozens of new high- and mid-rise buildings that had been built downtown. Telus Tower was built from 2007 to 2009, 32 stories. 120 Bremner is 30 stories, same time period. Cityplace has about two dozen high-rise residential towers that were all built in 2-3 years and are 30+ stories tall. It does not take 4 years to construct a highrise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CityPlace,_Toronto

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#309

Post by bunderbunder » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:33 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #195

timr wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

I've thought about that, but as far as I can tell, it means about $10-$15k of equipment and a dedicated work room. I need a mobile-connected "smart" whiteboard for every team member, a good microphone, webcam, speakers, a separate computer + monitor devoted to video conferencing, and a team that is geographically dispersed rather than partially-colocated. ...and hopefully, everyone has first class redundant internet,…

I hope that by "mobile-connected smart whiteboard for every team member" you mean "laptop or tablet with touchscreen, and a stylus".

You shouldn't need most of the rest of that, either. Make sure everyone has a 2nd monitor, and you'll need to buy a $30 webcam if they don't already have laptops. I wouldn't worry about the headset, either - cell phone headsets or earpods generally work fine and most everyone has a decent one nowadays. Wait for the folks who want something nicer to ask for one.

Cheap internet is fine. I worked from home with rock bottom residential service, the cheapest they would give me, and my connectivity was fantastic, better than anything I've ever had from an office. The secret is that nobody's on the Internet from home during the day, so you've got infrastructure that was meant to handle the whole world watching Netflix at 8pm more-or-less to yourself.

This is assuming a distributed team. mind. They have a tendency to self-assemble. Partial co-location is where things get messy and you start needing to worry about smart whiteboards and fancy videoconferencing equipment and all that crap. All that's really for is to make it an eensy bit more likely that the co-located folks will be willing to collaborate with the remote folks rather than forming a clique and forgetting that the rest of the team exists.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#310

Post by whitenoice » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:33 PM UTC

msoad wrote: post #243

msoad wrote: post #235

I live in a high rise in SF and pay $4400 for a one bedroom. Although it sounds expensive but it's like $800 more than the least expensive place we could find near this place but it's a well built apartment with lots of amenities. I thought about moving out of SF but I don't have any social connection outside of San Francisco. Plus weather is very nice here and there are lots of diverse cultural events happening in S…

I don't know why I'm getting downvoted! Don't you want to hear WHY people paying those rents or you want to believe everybody paying those rents are just plain stupid?! Markets are smart!

Up-voted, Are average SF rents that high? Boston is probably less than half that cost, with salaries comparable to the west coast and similar cultural events and excellent public and private schools. Weather is not that great though. Genuinely asking - So what makes SF so worth it, that it justifies its high cost of living? in comparison to other top class states, is it just the weather?