The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car • Hacker News Board

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by robotresearcher » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:48 PM UTC

wdmeldon wrote: post #67

Aleman360 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this article reinforces our bizarre cultural notion that one person deserves all the credit for some innovation. Nevermind the ridiculous amount of engineering that was required to build all the tools he's using and the order of magnitude more engineering required to make this a safe, mass producible product. But nah, let's just praise the founder, allow him to get rich while we all do the dirty work.

This comment is depressingly cynical. This is probably the single best definition of "hacking", as the community often refers to it, that I've seen in a very long time. One guy starts working on something only the biggest companies in the world dare attempt, throws together a minimal prototype built on top of existing technology. Just look at the picture of it. Claims of commercial viability or beating Tesla are a bi…

He implemented methods from the literature using a sensor specifically designed for this application. Grad students do this for class projects.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by nradov » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:50 PM UTC

zymhan wrote: post #292

analyst74 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans totally do things that are bizarre or dangerous when in shock, but we've come to accept that as a personal responsibility and a price the society has to bear.

Exactly. People may swerve and over-correct, causing their car to flip, for example.

Electronic stability control (standard in US passenger cars since 2012) has already mostly solved that problem. http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/Rollover/Electronic...

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by argonaut » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:53 PM UTC

jpfr wrote: post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

Why is deep learning this magic pixie dust you sprinkle on anything and it works? Have the people who are suggesting this actually gotten deep reinforcement learning to work on complex, long-time-frame, real-world continuous control problems before?

I would be very surprised if you got deep reinforcement learning to perform well on a self-driving task, even on a highway. If you did, well, your faculty position at Stanford is waiting for you.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by hueving » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:54 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #98

hueving wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not confident we can argue Google or anyone else has done much better. You might notice Google has never announced testing their cars where snow occurs, for example. This is a sensor limitation. They have fully admitted this several times (heavy rain too). Equating the fact that this guy can't handle any emergency situations with a sensor limitation all of the lidar systems suffer from is stupid. Google has show…

I actually have read up on it before I called it smoke and mirrors. While this is a year ago now, this is well after their cars were heavily marketed as being pretty sufficient and capable of detecting problems. ...Yet it couldn't detect the existence of a stoplight if it wasn't explicitly mapped ahead of time. And apparently, according to a Googler, the mapping required to make a road work with Google's self-driving…

But they did solve the problem with mapping. I wouldn't call that smoke and mirrors. The implementation is difficult, but at least it's a solution.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by agumonkey » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:58 PM UTC

ksk wrote: post #262

jpfr wrote: post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

>Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. Could you explain on what basis you claim this? Do you have intimate knowledge of his prototype, the amount of work he put in, or the novel ideas that he brought to the project in addition to integrating pre-existing tech? From what I can understand, your argument seems to be "lets see if I can guess what he did". If you're an authority in this field, then your guess could be ver…

That's the feeling I got from the video too. Maybe he tried too hard to make it appear as 'this is not as hard as big corps say it is!' but it also felt like 'hey, ML + basic CAN controls = self driving !'.. then I disagree. I want a computer with some general knowledge of physics + ML, not just abstracted drivers pattern on self play.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by frame_perfect » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 7:59 PM UTC

mtanski wrote: post #252

frame_perfect wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) It's probably not a disk. I'd bet it's an SSD, or something. I doubt he'd use an HDD considering how relatively cheap it is now... and considering how loaded he probably is.

SSD = solid state DISK

Fuck

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by sinatra » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 8:00 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #198

Xcelerate wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about this a lot before actually. In my opinion, the last people with jobs will be mathematicians. If you think about everything that would be hardest to automate, I think deep mathematical theory would be the most difficult (automated theorem provers have their limits).

And chess players. Computers will never beat the best chess players.

A chess game is, in the end, a massive tree of all possible moves that can be made. Once computers are powerful enough to simulate all those possible moves, they can be sure of winning (or at least not lose) every game against a human starting from move #1. Just like tic-tac-toe.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by samstave » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 8:04 PM UTC

jpfr wrote: post #95

bcohn91 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the first comment on HN minimizing this truly impressive project? Of course it's not perfect, he's ONE person.

The guy clearly is technically brilliant. But I was referring to the results. Not how the results were achieved. In the video, he claims to want to achieve level 3 driving. Let's see how he can do the following under non-perfect conditions: - switching lanes - stopping at lights - turning cornerns - turning left corners in traffic Then we can move on to the more difficult situations.

I feel as though there are improvements that can be done in the environment of driving;

Have all stop lights have a beacon that will tell cars their state, "the light is green on north south, red on east west"

Have exit signs have beacons as well.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by samstave » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 8:07 PM UTC

gbhn wrote: post #234

hackeram wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great observations and references @jpfr. Learning for the AI does not have to be from real world experiences only. Simulated/controlled emergency situations would help as well! Further even if the 2K lines of code stretches a bit more to deal with unknown situations that isn't so bad either

But this is a fundamental problem: The learning approach might need 100s of examples of drivers reacting to a bicycle on a sidewalk while turning right into a parking lot to get the right training input. Or perhaps it can learn from examples of bicycles and sidewalks and driveways to do the right thing. The point is, there are millions of edge cases, so getting examples of them all for training or verification is a v…

Make the AI play grand theft auto for many thousands of hours.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

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Post by ryanSrich » Wed, Dec 16, 2015, 8:07 PM UTC

thedz wrote: post #4

> “I understand the state-of-the-art papers,” he says. “The math is simple. For the first time in my life, I’m like, ‘I know everything there is to know.’ ” Yep, he's still in his twenties.

I'd typically tend to agree with you (that a guy in his 20's saying he knows everything is ludicrous), but geohot is an actual savant.