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PHP 7 Released

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Re: PHP 7 Released

#301

Post by mei0Iesh »

acdha wrote: post #140
mei0Iesh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were a corporate/academic programmer at the time, or lucky enthusiast, you had access to more things. Most commoner folk stepping up to a local ISP shell from BBS did not have access to all kinds of goodies. There also was less formal education available, so even when technologies existed, without mainstream marketing and documentation, it simply wasn't accessible to the masses. Cold Fusion was proprietary sof…

Again, PHP made it better and easier but you aren't going to convince me that my direct experience didn't exist simply by repeating the same assertion. Before PHP became widespread in the very late 90s there were many options for dynamic apps. I worked with ISPs which offered CGI or SSI even on cheap / free plans. Sure, it was ugly but a ton of people got what they needed done by going over to Matt's Script Archive a…

I didn't say first, I said responsible, and first doesn't really matter. Albert Einstein's e=mc^2 wasn't first, it was already published by someone else written slightly differently. But he made it popular, and that's what counts for widespread adoption and propagation of tech.

You sound like an older hardcore nerd. You're from a different planet. What was going on in your circles was not at all a reflection of the web on a whole. Most people didn't even use ISPs in those times, they were on private systems like AOL. The dynamic web we know today, where almost every website is not static HTML, is because the majority of people making any little website had access to PHP, and free tutorials to learn.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#302

Post by acomjean »

wtetzner wrote: post #278
monk_e_boy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ongoing in the PHP community. For those who like purity there are tons and tons of wrapper classes that hide all that stuff away. Modern IDEs autocomplete all the functions, I'm using PHPStorm and as soon as I type 'arr' it shows me a list of all the array functions with parameters listed. Not perfect, but if I was worried about that kind of thing I'd use Python (which I love) or RoR (which I also love). The…

> The ethos of PHP is to just get stuff done I never understood this standpoint. I hear this from the Go community sometimes too. Wouldn't having some sane organization of functions make it easier to "just get stuff done"? Just like in Go, wouldn't generics make it easier to get stuff done?

PHP Developers who I've met at conferences and user groups talk about what they're building. Rarely do they seem to care that much about the language. I think many would be happy in many languages, its about being able to build something quickly. If its not elegant, nobody cares.

There are a lot of frameworks (too many frankly) and tooling that enable quick building of custom sites.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#303

Post by sneak »

ceejayoz wrote: post #274
estefan wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I read it he's saying the language is crap not his peers who use it.

"PHP has no place in modern development" implies that peers choosing PHP for new dev are essentially incompetent.

Correct, though I would go with "ignorant of the state of the art", though "incompetent" means the same thing.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#304

Post by sneak »

Killswitch wrote: post #130
sneak wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a lot of sites run it doesn't mean it's not crap. A lot of companies still host stuff on Windows like it's still 2002, as well. PHP has no place in modern development.

You do realize that the number 2 ranked website on the internet runs on PHP. Get over your elitest attitude. PHP is a fine language and has it's warrants of use. Speaking of, 2 days ago marked a year since I last used PHP.

The number one bank runs FORTRAN. What is the point you are trying to make?

Re: PHP 7 Released

#305

Post by sneak »

marklgr wrote: post #58
rplnt wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PHP is the language many people love to hate Do you think there's a reason for that? Maybe a direct one? That it's a bad language for example? Why would it need to be anything more complicated than that. So I don't think your guess is accurate. It's simply a bad language on its own. No need to compare it to anything. And I don't think anyone can deny that, no one will honestly say that "php is a good language". You…

To me, it's a so-so language, with some bad parts, some ok. On the plus side, it's easy to pick up, and it gets the job done for many projects. Perhaps it's a bit like the Ikea of programming languages, if you will--no the best of furniture for sure, but when you need a table and some chairs with little efforts, it's nice to have, and they're not horrendous unless you couldn't build them correctly.

Bad analogy; competent people put lots of time and effort into designing IKEA furniture.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#306

Post by profmonocle »

timmy_ wrote: post #300
profmonocle wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, why do you have no option on hosting? I got into PHP many years ago for this exact reason - it was the easiest language to use on low-cost shared hosting. But these days you can get a decent VPS (where you have root and can use any language) for $10-$15 a month, which is exactly what I used to consider "low-cost hosting".

I live in Africa & $10 * 12 = $120/year is way too expensive --- when I say cheap, I'm talking about $3/month (shared, 20GB bandwidth, 1GB storage, MySQL / PgSql) Hostgator, Godaddy...

Wow! I wasn't aware shared hosting prices had gone down so much as well, but I guess they couldn't compete with VPS services otherwise.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#307

Post by trm42 »

EGreg wrote: post #292
trm42 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laravel at least has Query Builder: http://laravel.com/docs/5.1/queries As an interesting side note: Laravel's AR ORM (=Eloquent) is built on top of the Query Builder so you can leverage Query Builder with AR if you know what you're doing. Can also lead to big problems if you don't realize the possibilities and the caveats.

Like what kind of problems?

Here has been discussion in another comments about overusing ARs for trying to achieve too complicated things that'll lead to DB performance problems. As stated elsewhere here, AR is good for CRUD operations but after that you should use Query Builder or plain SQL to achieve the more complicated cases.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#308

Post by Shish2k »

Killswitch wrote: post #130
sneak wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a lot of sites run it doesn't mean it's not crap. A lot of companies still host stuff on Windows like it's still 2002, as well. PHP has no place in modern development.

You do realize that the number 2 ranked website on the internet runs on PHP. Get over your elitest attitude. PHP is a fine language and has it's warrants of use. Speaking of, 2 days ago marked a year since I last used PHP.

> number 2 ranked website on the internet runs on PHP

The frontend is "PHP", but with a replacement engine, a replacement language, and a replacement standard library...

Having written a bunch of facebook-style Hack and wordpress-style PHP, I would personally consider them about as similar as C++ and Java.

Re: PHP 7 Released

#309

Post by MAGZine »

jjuhl wrote: post #277
MAGZine wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's actually not bad for anyone who has written PHP 5.4+ with a modern framework. Yes. Good.

It may solve your immediate problem. But it's dangerous - there are too many hidden gotchas and situations where you have to know the actual implementation (which can change) to know what it does. It also breaks a lot of conventions established by most other languages, so you really have to be really careful when assuming that "this probably works like I expect" - you may get nasty surprises). Ohh and it's pretty slo…

Yikes.

PHP's architecture is highly discussed in their mailing lists. If you have such a problem with the language, why don't you just jump in and show everyone the light?

I can't believe that you're still talking about things from 2007 or the horribly outdated fractal of bad design article. It's nearly 2016, do things not change in tech over the course of 4 years?

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