One not very often discussed fact is that the effects of even an all-out nuclear war (detonation of all existing nuclear weapons) are exaggerated, for various fairly obvious reasons. The total number of people killed will be "only" 10-15%, and it will be definitely not a threat to humanity as the species. http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html I read somewhere that if all existing weapons in the world were detonated u…
A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
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Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#32Since it was so close to the blast, wouldn't it still be radioactive, like Marie Curie's journals?
No. Airburst nuclear bombs for the most part don't make things radioactive, air pretty much can't become radioactive (pure water also can't become radioactive, although you can mix radioactive elements into it of course). Ground blasts are worse, but it's the ground itself that becomes radioactive, not the things that are far away and are affected by the blast. And no one purposely does ground bursts, because they do…
However, neutron flux falls off quickly with range, and for an airburst explosion it would not have been high enough at the surface to cause significant neutron "activation" of local materials. Almost all of the fallout from the blast came from the material in the bomb itself.
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#33One not very often discussed fact is that the effects of even an all-out nuclear war (detonation of all existing nuclear weapons) are exaggerated, for various fairly obvious reasons. The total number of people killed will be "only" 10-15%, and it will be definitely not a threat to humanity as the species. http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html I read somewhere that if all existing weapons in the world were detonated u…
In terms of the nuclear blast and radiation itself, it's true that probably only a half a billion people or so would die. But you'd be essentially ripping out the entire economic and political nervous system of the world, resulting in massive economic dislocation and political chaos. I find it plenty plausible that that by itself could easily get the body count up to the billions.
There are also possible environmental effects: the dreaded nuclear winter. It's not clear to me if the debate was resolved one way or another about how bad it'd actually be, but it seems like a real possibility that it'd hurt the climate much worse than even the most dire warnings of global warming. And it'd happen more or less instantly, as black soot would immediately be sent up to the stratosphere.
An article from 2007 in the Journal of Geophysical Research, courtesy of Wikipedia, states:
A global average surface cooling of –7 °C to –8 °C persists for years, and after a decade the cooling is still –4 °C (Fig. 2). Considering that the global average cooling at the depth of the last ice age 18,000 yr ago was about –5 °C, this would be a climate change unprecedented in speed and amplitude in the history of the human race. The temperature changes are largest over land ... Cooling of more than –20 °C occurs over large areas of North America and of more than –30 °C over much of Eurasia, including all agricultural regions.
That's bad news, and would compound the political strife, wars, and economic dislocations. And while now refugees from war have to possibility of fleeing to a neighboring stable country, with this scenario pretty much everyone is in a terrible place, so you don't even have that possible pressure valve.Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#34I still visit the farm in my mind 30 years later.
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#35One not very often discussed fact is that the effects of even an all-out nuclear war (detonation of all existing nuclear weapons) are exaggerated, for various fairly obvious reasons. The total number of people killed will be "only" 10-15%, and it will be definitely not a threat to humanity as the species. http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html I read somewhere that if all existing weapons in the world were detonated u…
Eh, I think that's underplaying it a bit. Of course you can't literally turn a state the size of Texas into a plate of glass with nukes, but a couple thousand dropped in the most economically productive parts of the world? In terms of the nuclear blast and radiation itself, it's true that probably only a half a billion people or so would die. But you'd be essentially ripping out the entire economic and political nerv…
Humanity would be fine, but civilization would be in for some real trouble. I imagine that deaths from starvation and disease would rival or exceed immediate deaths in the nuclear exchange.
The novel War Day is an intense and fascinating look at the aftermath of a limited nuclear strike. From my limited knowledge it's pretty accurate about what would happen.
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#36Am a bit disappointed that there are no respect here for the origin of the bomb and its success. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_a... Does the HN realise there is anotehr world outside of Silicon Velley ??
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#37One not very often discussed fact is that the effects of even an all-out nuclear war (detonation of all existing nuclear weapons) are exaggerated, for various fairly obvious reasons. The total number of people killed will be "only" 10-15%, and it will be definitely not a threat to humanity as the species. http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/82jpr.html I read somewhere that if all existing weapons in the world were detonated u…
The math started with WWII Germany. They kept reasonably reliable records of where and when people died during allied air raids. So someone drew up a formula linking the tonnage of bombs dropped with the number of dead on the ground. This was then extended to nukes and their power measured in thousands (kilo) and millions (mega) of tons of TNT. So bombs with explosive power greater than all of WWII (a common description) could "kill" as many people as an entire war. Kissinger was correct in saying that all the bombs in the world would not, could not, destroy everyone ten or twenty times over.
This false analogy was also part of debates during Vietnam. Many, on both sided of every argument, used the math to estimate the number killed by US bombing raids, ignoring the fact that German cities and Vietnam jungle are in no way analogous.
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. Airburst nuclear bombs for the most part don't make things radioactive, air pretty much can't become radioactive (pure water also can't become radioactive, although you can mix radioactive elements into it of course). Ground blasts are worse, but it's the ground itself that becomes radioactive, not the things that are far away and are affected by the blast. And no one purposely does ground bursts, because they do…
Water can and does become radioactive through neutron capture breeding tritium. However, neutron flux falls off quickly with range, and for an airburst explosion it would not have been high enough at the surface to cause significant neutron "activation" of local materials. Almost all of the fallout from the blast came from the material in the bomb itself.
To make tritium you need to start with deuterium, which is already rarely made by atom bombs. So you have two rare events that have to happen in sequence.
So that means that atom bombs pretty much don't make any.
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#39I've always thought the culture and heritage surrounding bonsai is amazing. I was in a local bonsai club when I was younger and the patience required to produce a really great tree is something to be respected. Sometimes the trees will just die for no discernible reason and you just have to start over after months or years of work. Some of the oldest trees are estimated to be over 1000 years old and have been passed…
I know the feeling, one of my favourite tree just died in spring; it was all fine during the winter, and just died like that. 5 years of work, and p00f!
Re: A 390-year-old bonsai tree survived an atomic bomb
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Water can and does become radioactive through neutron capture breeding tritium. However, neutron flux falls off quickly with range, and for an airburst explosion it would not have been high enough at the surface to cause significant neutron "activation" of local materials. Almost all of the fallout from the blast came from the material in the bomb itself.
That's true, but atom bombs make very very little tritium. To make tritium you need to start with deuterium, which is already rarely made by atom bombs. So you have two rare events that have to happen in sequence. So that means that atom bombs pretty much don't make any.