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This Is My Racism

jonathanlipps.com

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Re: This Is My Racism

#31

Post by jlipps »

paulhauggis wrote: post #2

"We’ve seen videos of innocent black citizens gunned down by the police that is supposed to protect them" Really? Where are these videos. I think I only saw one video making the rounds where this was the case. The rest was speculation and mob mentality. "Hands up Don't shoot", for instance, never happened. "We’ve seen a community devastated by a terrorist attack that can only be described as pure, premeditated evil"…

Thanks for your thoughts. The point of my article wasn't to deny that there are any counterexamples to my overarching theme. No argument involving society is going to be free of counterexamples.

I disagree with some things you've said here but will just say 2 things:

1. I'm grateful you give everyone an equal chance. I thought I did too until I uncovered what I now believe to be an ingrained sort of bias. If you're free from that, more power to you! Far be it from me to tell you who you are.

2. I do believe that racism is one of the hidden engines of society, and inhabits each of us more than we know for that reason. That's why I was proposing to move the dialogue from an existential proof of racism to a question of how exactly it has shaped us. It's not (or doesn't feel like) "pseudoempathy" as another commenter put it. It feels like moving past denial to a more productive mode of engagement with this gnarled issue.

Re: This Is My Racism

#32

Post by hoopd »

marcusgarvey wrote: post #28
hoopd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you misinterpreted what they said. The point was that white people don't get to run away from traffic stops and knock tasers out of cops hands without getting shot. But when a black guy does it it makes the cover of Time magazine because it's so racist.

>Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings. The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million wh…

This is a bit of a non-sequitor.

"21 times greater" is a great sound-bite but I honestly don't know what you'd expect. Take white males, make them 10 times as likely to be killed in general, 5-10 times as likely to be murderers, make them stronger, more likely to come from extreme poverty, give them a 50% high-school graduation rate, increase their rate of illiteracy, increase the rates at which they carry deadly weapons, increase how often they are violent in general, increase their sense of despair and hopelessness, break their family structure so many of them turn to street gangs for acceptance and give them a culture that openly glorifies violence against the police.

Now they're still white males, how much would their chances of being on the losing end of a violent confrontation with the police increase?

In other words there are many other causes and conditions that are at play here and assuming it's because cops are racist is absurd.

Re: This Is My Racism

#33

Post by animefan »

hoopd wrote: post #18
animefan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which parts of that post were so extreme that it would be wiser to say then anonymously, in your view? The fact that so called "racists" are unable to freely[0] express even a moderate opposition to the mainstream narrative on racism, is the best proof that this narrative is at best incomplete. [0] e.g. without fear of losing ones job.

I don't think any of it's extreme, it's just an opinion. Still he might not want it coming up when a hiring manager googles his name 5-10 years down the road. If HN let us delete our names and/or comments it would be different.

I guess part of my point was that when your post implies some implicit threat, you should be clear on whether you are merely warning of this threat or whether you think it's a good thing. Otherwise you might end to inadvertently supporting a system you don't intend to.

Re: This Is My Racism

#34

Post by hoopd »

hoopd wrote: post #30
marcusgarvey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the cost of moving into the neighborhood went up, the white homeowners surely also benefited from higher home equity values which they can borrow against; realized gains from selling the homes -- for them and for their heirs; better public school systems; better public facilities. So, no I don't think the subsidy argument falls apart.

Only if the market goes up enough vs the other neighborhoods and what would have happened. Which maybe you can argue it does. I'm not racist enough to believe that the presence of people with black skin is that detrimental to property values. It seems clear that redlining is about class more than race. You still have the problem that subsidies are generally thought to cost money. If redlining makes the city money it…

Lost another 10 karma overnight for trying to join this discussion without going "hoo, haaa, obviously the whole world is racist and sexist and that disgusts me..." before voicing contrary opinions.

Re: This Is My Racism

#35

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

DanBC wrote: post #27
codehotter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me first state why I disagree with you, and then why I don't think you should be downvoted. (at the time I'm writing this, parent's post is light grey.) Time and time again, studies demonstrate that we are all a little bit racist. Another commenter pointed out that the Implicit Association Test is a nice introduction to this research. You can take a test here: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html…

GP post uses personal experience, but fails to understand that being white is a crucial detail. "Police are racist" isn't persuasively countered by "I'm white. They treat me okay". This is a point GP has made before. "Them black fellas would be fine if they weren't so uppity" is, not surprisingly, a touchy viewpoint. (PaulHaugis does make some good points about lynchmods and bullying and it's weird that those posts g…

Thing about lynch mobs is there's a bit of distance between being downvoted on an internet discussion board and dangling neckwise from a poplar tree.

Re: This Is My Racism

#36

Post by hoopd »

hoopd wrote: post #34
hoopd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the market goes up enough vs the other neighborhoods and what would have happened. Which maybe you can argue it does. I'm not racist enough to believe that the presence of people with black skin is that detrimental to property values. It seems clear that redlining is about class more than race. You still have the problem that subsidies are generally thought to cost money. If redlining makes the city money it…

Lost another 10 karma overnight for trying to join this discussion without going "hoo, haaa, obviously the whole world is racist and sexist and that disgusts me..." before voicing contrary opinions.

Yeah downvote that one, too.

I'm starting to interpret the "don't complain about downvotes" guideline as "don't shed light on how this community misuses downvotes to quietly marginalize contrary views while maintaining the illusion of civil discourse."

Re: This Is My Racism

#37

Post by DanBC »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #35
DanBC wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP post uses personal experience, but fails to understand that being white is a crucial detail. "Police are racist" isn't persuasively countered by "I'm white. They treat me okay". This is a point GP has made before. "Them black fellas would be fine if they weren't so uppity" is, not surprisingly, a touchy viewpoint. (PaulHaugis does make some good points about lynchmods and bullying and it's weird that those posts g…

Thing about lynch mobs is there's a bit of distance between being downvoted on an internet discussion board and dangling neckwise from a poplar tree.

Sure. Change the language - it's still a good point. He's not talking about a few downvotes either, he's talking about the huge numbers of people who get swept up into eg Twitter shitstorms. People lose their jobs after these campaigns.
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