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India blocks Colgate patents for spices

deccanherald.com

31–40 of 49 posts

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a misspelling for darchini, i.e. cinnamon

It's not a misspelling: the Hindi word is dalchini , and the Bengali word is darchini .

That's interesting, because my Urdu speaking family in Karachi always says darchini for some reason.

cf. http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.p...

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#32
post #5

Imagine all the countless hour of pointless human labor that could be saved if we simply abolished patents. How many man hours has been wasted in these thousands of cases? And for what? How is patenting combination of spices going to increase innovation? But then again I suppose this "solves" the problem that there's not enough productive work to go around. In a 100 years perhaps all human endeavor will be about figh…

The textbook pro-patent argument is that giving out a short-term monopoly increases the benefits of R&D. A company would have less to gain from developing a new product if anyone could then produce it. If you want to abolish patents, you need to create a new system by which companies can benefit from their innovation.

Most of the time, I don't think you do. I think innovation is still going to happen anyway. For example, I think companies would have still made mobile phones and furthermore I think they would be better without patents because one maker wouldn't be arbitrarily restricted from using some idea-that-was-going-to-happen-anyway-because-the-time-was-right because another patented it. What is lost in monopolies is more than made up for in reduced overhead and ability to move quicker and come up with superior solutions because you are allowed to build on more ideas than you otherwise would. In some instances perhaps patents do act to expedite innovation (instances where time/cost to market is very high), but I think these are in the minority and that there is probably a better legal / tax / grant / political solution to that than granting of monopolies on ideas.

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The textbook pro-patent argument is that giving out a short-term monopoly increases the benefits of R&D. A company would have less to gain from developing a new product if anyone could then produce it. If you want to abolish patents, you need to create a new system by which companies can benefit from their innovation.

Most of the time, I don't think you do. I think innovation is still going to happen anyway. For example, I think companies would have still made mobile phones and furthermore I think they would be better without patents because one maker wouldn't be arbitrarily restricted from using some idea-that-was-going-to-happen-anyway-because-the-time-was-right because another patented it. What is lost in monopolies is more tha…

What about pharmaceuticals? These are a major arena of patents, where the R&D is measured in the billions of dollars per drug with massive profit margins on successful drugs and tiny profit margins on generics once the patents have expired. What do you think the best alternative is to patents? Government-sponsored research (which already contributes a lot to pharmaceuticals by paying for low level research) or something else?

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#34
post #6

"You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? - Medicine." - Tim Minchin This quote used to really sum up my opinion, but the more time I've spent growing and eating and researching a variety of plants/herbs/spices, it's quite clear that many of them do have quite a lot of beneficial health effects, often unique in being more effective or having less side-effects than western medicine. Pla…

"Just as an example, go read the Wikipedia pages and some assorted Googled info on what was listed in the article: nutmeg, ginger, “Bakul” tree, camphor, cinnamon, turmeric, Indian banyan, black pepper, long pepper, Neem and clove."

Actually, there's a shortcut - just read about aspirin.

It's very effective, it has truly medicinal uses, and is (for most folks) "western" medicine.

And it's just tree bark.

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#35
post #5

Imagine all the countless hour of pointless human labor that could be saved if we simply abolished patents. How many man hours has been wasted in these thousands of cases? And for what? How is patenting combination of spices going to increase innovation? But then again I suppose this "solves" the problem that there's not enough productive work to go around. In a 100 years perhaps all human endeavor will be about figh…

The nice thing about patents is that in finite time they go public domain (unlike copyright). It is an oft overlooked value.

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#36
post #33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time, I don't think you do. I think innovation is still going to happen anyway. For example, I think companies would have still made mobile phones and furthermore I think they would be better without patents because one maker wouldn't be arbitrarily restricted from using some idea-that-was-going-to-happen-anyway-because-the-time-was-right because another patented it. What is lost in monopolies is more tha…

What about pharmaceuticals? These are a major arena of patents, where the R&D is measured in the billions of dollars per drug with massive profit margins on successful drugs and tiny profit margins on generics once the patents have expired. What do you think the best alternative is to patents? Government-sponsored research (which already contributes a lot to pharmaceuticals by paying for low level research) or someth…

You were just presented with a case where nothing was invented, a drug was simply looked up in a commonly known ancient text. Colgate owes India damages.

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#37
post #5

Imagine all the countless hour of pointless human labor that could be saved if we simply abolished patents. How many man hours has been wasted in these thousands of cases? And for what? How is patenting combination of spices going to increase innovation? But then again I suppose this "solves" the problem that there's not enough productive work to go around. In a 100 years perhaps all human endeavor will be about figh…

> Imagine all the countless hour of pointless human labor that could be saved if we simply abolished patents. For example, all the time that pharmaceutical companies "waste" developing new drugs would be saved!

Maybe drugs shouldn't be "invented" by pharmaceutical companies? Is a company always the best organizational structure?

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a misspelling for darchini, i.e. cinnamon

I've always heard it pronounced as "dalchini", in Hindi and three different regional languages (Bengali, Odia, and Marathi).

Interesting. We always say "darchini" too.

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#39
post #36
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about pharmaceuticals? These are a major arena of patents, where the R&D is measured in the billions of dollars per drug with massive profit margins on successful drugs and tiny profit margins on generics once the patents have expired. What do you think the best alternative is to patents? Government-sponsored research (which already contributes a lot to pharmaceuticals by paying for low level research) or someth…

You were just presented with a case where nothing was invented, a drug was simply looked up in a commonly known ancient text. Colgate owes India damages.

You're right, that's the sort of thing that seems to deserve neither a patent nor any other sort of monopoly. But my question is about the many billions of dollars spent on other sorts of pharmaceutical development. Or is your argument that cases like this one outweigh the benefits derived from drug development in cases where it requires genuine, prolonged, and expensive research effort?

Re: India blocks Colgate patents for spices

#40
post #33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time, I don't think you do. I think innovation is still going to happen anyway. For example, I think companies would have still made mobile phones and furthermore I think they would be better without patents because one maker wouldn't be arbitrarily restricted from using some idea-that-was-going-to-happen-anyway-because-the-time-was-right because another patented it. What is lost in monopolies is more tha…

What about pharmaceuticals? These are a major arena of patents, where the R&D is measured in the billions of dollars per drug with massive profit margins on successful drugs and tiny profit margins on generics once the patents have expired. What do you think the best alternative is to patents? Government-sponsored research (which already contributes a lot to pharmaceuticals by paying for low level research) or someth…

Yes, I think there would be some system of government sponsorship that would more efficiently deliver the same benefits to society. On the other hand, you can probably rely on governments to screw it up, and it's a tricky issue so I'm open to changing my mind (on extremely high cost to develop patents only).
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