Live data from Hacker News

Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

asia.nikkei.com

31–40 of 111 posts

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#31
post #6
post #2

reading that made me think of the Byrd's song To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

Ecclesiastes 3 King James Version (KJV) 3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 A time to cast away stones, and…

Ecclesiastes! A good book, and I think a lot of people in our field could relate to it a little:

"Then I hated all my labor in which I had toiled under the sun, because I must leave it to the man who will come after me. And who knows whether he will be wise or a fool? Yet he will rule over all my labor in which I toiled and in which I have shown myself wise under the sun. This also is vanity."

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#32
post #4
post #2

reading that made me think of the Byrd's song To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

That's not the original source though, FYI.

To go one level deeper: It's actually an old Pete Seeger folk song.

So the Byrds were covering a Pete Seeger song, who used lyrics by Ecclesiastes.

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#33
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you instruct a machine to optimize for the cheapest price; it will do that. The failure is in the instructions given, not the introduction of machines.

That much should be clear, my (unfortunately) implicit question is: how can we instruct a machine to optimize for the very intangible things everybody seems to love so much about this chalk? What about the more subtle economic things (like signals of economic climate and value of quality).

I once worked for a guy once who claimed he could sole-source a peanut if he had to. Many of them boiled down to colluding with the supplier to find a set of properties that were unique to their particular peanuts; things like soil pH, average temperature of the area they were grown in, not too much rainfall, not too little rainfall. Most purchasers were neither educated sufficiently to question these kinds of specifications, nor were they particularly interested; they also wanted to find the path of least resistance through the process. We probably could have bought most anything we wanted. Later we had a DOE grant get audited and there was some nervousness on our parts about some of these shenanigans that might be found. The guy just chuckled and said nearly everyone has to play this game to some extent. His major complaint about our books was that our overhead costs were above average, and he helped us make a case to the Uni for lowering it. Didn't see that one coming.

For an item like chalk though, my employer now has an arrangement with one of the big office-supply companies who specialize in tolerating (and charging extra for) gov't nonsense. Lately it's been CDW-G, I think. They provide a walled garden of approved products (which don't include the kind of good quality chalk in question) and a semi-streamlined purchasing process. It works great for the purchasing dep't, I'm sure, but it sucks for end-users because it introduces the same kind of uncertainty that a purchasing organization is supposed to fix. For example, the prices quoted on the website are not the actual prices of the products, and the products have variable discounts; this and the latency inherent in dealing with the purchasing process makes budgeting and price-shopping difficult to impossible. In my very small dep't we usually have budget projections rounded to the nearest hundred even for small items like chalk/dry erase markers because doing otherwise is a waste of time. We spent a lot of time a few years ago, working around the purchasing system just trying to get decent chalk before fatigue eventually set in and we just gave up and installed whiteboards.

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#34
post #12

This whole saga pretty much has to inspire someone to build and reverse engineer the machine/recipe. The overlap of people who like to tinker with this stuff and people who love the chalk seems big enough. It's also interesting that they seem to be somewhat oblivious of the US demand. At least it seemed like that. My guess is that they could have sold one of the machines to a US based entrepreneur. I can pretty much…

It seems the preference is shifting towards dry-erase boards.

It depends on who you talk to, I've seen renovated university study spaces with fresh chalkboards. When I asked the staff why they chose chalkboards instead of whiteboards, they said that it's cheaper in the long run because cleaning and replacing whiteboards is awful and expensive. Chalkboards are significantly more durable.

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the preference is shifting towards dry-erase boards.

It depends on who you talk to, I've seen renovated university study spaces with fresh chalkboards. When I asked the staff why they chose chalkboards instead of whiteboards, they said that it's cheaper in the long run because cleaning and replacing whiteboards is awful and expensive. Chalkboards are significantly more durable.

Not to mention I've never had a piece of chalk dry out.

Seems whenever I try to use a whiteboard, the first 5 markers I try don't write and I have to spend 15 minutes hunting for spares.

And if you have a "sort of working" marker, which is what I'd usually end up with, it won't write very dark and the whiteboard text has worse contrast than a chalkboard.

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#37
post #12

This whole saga pretty much has to inspire someone to build and reverse engineer the machine/recipe. The overlap of people who like to tinker with this stuff and people who love the chalk seems big enough. It's also interesting that they seem to be somewhat oblivious of the US demand. At least it seemed like that. My guess is that they could have sold one of the machines to a US based entrepreneur. I can pretty much…

US demand and overseas markets can't cancel out Supply and Demand and market forces. - Chalk is on it's way out. It's a rapidly shrinking market. Each year there will be less customers and less profit world wide. - He could have sold the machine to another entreprenuer? Their company makes 45 MILLION sticks of chalk. They're getting their materials at a high bulk discount. Another company can never match the price po…

You're treating it like a commodity product focused on economies of scale (comparison to Crayola). As an outsider reading about it the last couple of weeks they did have good quantities but it feels like a repositioning as a quality leader makes sense. So switch the focus from cost leadership to differentiation (quality) in Porter terms.

I'm pretty sure the customers mentioned qualify as typical customers that are willing to pay a hefty premium for a product they love. tl;dr: scale down, focus on quality, charge more > shutdown

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#38
post #35

About 20 years ago they should have created a grading standard for chalk so they could have avoided their commoditization, or at least only compete with others at similar quality (and presumably margins). Similar to organic standards.

Yes, this is what I wanted to say. Quantify what makes them great. After reading the article and the comments, I still have no understanding of why or what makes them so great.

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#39
post #19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally unaware of conventions used in public purchases. Isn't an "electornic auction system" just a database anyone can spam - the actual decisions are probably made by humans? My hunch (might be incorrect) that the auction system creates a barrier of disinterest where the official has very little else to go with than the prices quoted. In this case it's not that the machine is stupid - it's way worse, the syste…

Sometimes you're required by law to go with the lowest valid bid (presumably to discourage kickbacks and self dealing)

Not really. It's to prevent silly mistakes.

Re: Hagoromo president explains why he closed down his beloved chalk business

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on who you talk to, I've seen renovated university study spaces with fresh chalkboards. When I asked the staff why they chose chalkboards instead of whiteboards, they said that it's cheaper in the long run because cleaning and replacing whiteboards is awful and expensive. Chalkboards are significantly more durable.

Not to mention I've never had a piece of chalk dry out. Seems whenever I try to use a whiteboard, the first 5 markers I try don't write and I have to spend 15 minutes hunting for spares. And if you have a "sort of working" marker, which is what I'd usually end up with, it won't write very dark and the whiteboard text has worse contrast than a chalkboard.

What drives me up a wall is when people find a non-working marker... and then put it back! No! Throw it away! It is better to have no markers than have non-working ones. That is an easy and clear signal that it is time to find / buy more markers.
Post reply on HN