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Depression's Upside (2010)

nytimes.com

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Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#32

Post by MDCore »

jE22teTh wrote: post #29
MDCore wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks interesting! Do you have any articles, papers etc. I can read?

Re-emergence of moderate iodine deficiency in developed countries: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130522131000.ht... In New Zealand the emergence of moderate iodine deficiency resulted in a mandate of adding iodized salt to bread: http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-welln... The reasons for the deficiency look a lot like the US: "The re-emergence in iodine deficiency appears to be due…

Thank you, that's really useful.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#33

Post by cactusface »

tjradcliffe wrote: post #21
[deleted] wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> I think depression has a similar role. Why? I can't see any basis for your belief other than "it just makes sense to me", which is the epistemology of bloodletting and witchburning. Evolutionary just-so stories have been so thoroughly and repeatedly debunked that no one thinks they can be evidence for anything. They may be useful motivators for testable ideas, but that's all. So where is your evidence, your clinica…

Okay, we know that CBT works for depression, yeah? CBT postulates that your thoughts cause your emotions. Part of the therapy is identifying and refuting negative thoughts like, "You're worthless!" Well, if other people are telling you that you're worthless, in one way or another, then it has the same effect. It doesn't matter how much CBT you do, if everyone is around you is telling you that you're worthless, you're going to stay depressed, because that kind of treatment makes you feel angry, sad, and ashamed. You can't just reason your way out of it.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#35

Post by eivarv »

cactusface wrote: post #33
tjradcliffe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think depression has a similar role. Why? I can't see any basis for your belief other than "it just makes sense to me", which is the epistemology of bloodletting and witchburning. Evolutionary just-so stories have been so thoroughly and repeatedly debunked that no one thinks they can be evidence for anything. They may be useful motivators for testable ideas, but that's all. So where is your evidence, your clinica…

Okay, we know that CBT works for depression, yeah? CBT postulates that your thoughts cause your emotions. Part of the therapy is identifying and refuting negative thoughts like, "You're worthless!" Well, if other people are telling you that you're worthless, in one way or another, then it has the same effect. It doesn't matter how much CBT you do, if everyone is around you is telling you that you're worthless, you're…

Your own thoughts and other people's communication do not have the same effect in the context you're describing.

You could agree or disagree with what other people say (or whether it matters), for one, while the unreasonable thoughts and irrational thought patterns associated with depression is part of your own perspective in this case. These negative thoughts are identified by and refuted because of the fact that they are irrational, resulting from erroneous thinking.

Also, your own thoughts and beliefs would cause or motivate your emotions, but the external forces you describe would necessarily have to be interpreted by you (i.e. pass through the lens of your thoughts and beliefs). It would not be other the other people's criticism that leads to any emotion, but rather your thoughts about it, according to CBT.

Depression (clinical, major depressive disorder) is also something wholly different than feeling angry, sad and ashamed, and is (generally) in fact not a results of bad treatment or other external factors.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#36

Post by [deleted] »

tormeh wrote: post #5
univalent wrote: post #3

I read an interesting paper a few years back showing a correlation between low(er) rates of depression in population areas with high(er) lithium content in their drinking water. The paper also discussed how big pharma had pushed doctors away from Li over the years towards more expensive drugs.

Lithium is quite dangerous, though. The quantities have to be pretty exact and injected with syringe, if I remember correctly, which means a doctor will have to do it for you. Every time. That's obviously problematic.

[deleted]

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#37

Post by tim333 »

jE22teTh wrote: post #2

In the US, a surprisingly easy way to inadvertently cause mild depression is to decrease intake of iodized salt over time. The "natural" iodine content of many foods (bread, milk) seems to be dropping steadily due to organic and other preparation practices. Kelp-extract supplements with around 200mcg of iodine daily can go a long way towards preventing mild depression associated with borderline iodine deficiency.

Also consuming more Omega 3 oils, found in oily fish, can help.

eg see http://consumer.healthday.com/encyclopedia/depression-12/dep...

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#38

Post by jetru »

jE22teTh wrote: post #30
alecrn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's iodine deficiency that causes depression, then why would decreasing intake of iodized salt help?

Sorry for the poor phrasing. Decreasing salt intake is a healthy thing to do these days, which will likely also decrease one's iodine intake.

It's not. We don't really know for sure.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinolo... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/06/m...

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#39

Post by tim333 »

vermooten wrote: post #6

I've just started CBT to hopefully fix my broken spirit, the article nailed my symptoms. I'm not sure my staying indoors in a darkened room and sighing a lot is helping me to focus on anything though.

Good luck. I did some and found it helpful. I kind guess personally that it works by a kind of neural network rewiring. Before CBT some neurones are taking input, processing it as indicating things being crappy and directly signalling that to the older reptilian bits of the brain that deal with that, without conscious awareness. By consciously becoming aware of the things are crappy reasoning you can argue against it and rewire those networks. At least that's my theory on it.
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