Live data from Hacker News

11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

reason.com

31–40 of 70 posts

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#31

Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time taking this story seriously. The list of affronts visited on the family (strip searches, cops pissing on property, foster worse than the parents, humiliation of the parents by the state) makes it a story sound almost too good to be true if you are looking to rile up your readership. No identifying information is another big red flag, the parents of the free range kids has…

Maybe the parents simply contacted the author with the story and asked not to be named. It's kind of pointless journalism though if you have no verifiable facts. In some other stories she uses real and full names; she has a TV show and is a published author; I don't feel like she made this up.

Having a reality TV show and running a popular blog would make me think they're more likely to spin or embellish things.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#32

Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time taking this story seriously. The list of affronts visited on the family (strip searches, cops pissing on property, foster worse than the parents, humiliation of the parents by the state) makes it a story sound almost too good to be true if you are looking to rile up your readership. No identifying information is another big red flag, the parents of the free range kids has…

Per the details in the original post, she is employed by a school, and has been suspended and told to not to talk to media until this is over: http://www.freerangekids.com/boy-11-plays-basketball-in-own-... And given the steady stream of well-documented, actual and equally ridiculous cases like this on Free Range Kids, I doubt this is a prank.

I don't think it's impossible that this story is true, nor do I think it's a prank, but I wonder if the original author were pressed for identifying details if they would claim it was an amalgamation of different cases crafted into one "cautionary tale".

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#33
post #7

I am foreigner, so could someone explain to me - why this is happening? From my discussion similar incidents with other parents it seems like everybody not sure why such attitude exists today. I mean, it should be same adults who have no clue why it is done, pass and enforce these laws?

As an American who spends a lot of time in other countries, here's my best, shortest attempt to explain:

1) The cultural trust and norms in our country are dead. Everything gets the most superficial consideration, there's no basis of reasonableness such that even the judge doesn't stop the machine, power is so distributed that there's no reasonable authority in place, and people like CPS -- who have difficult and challenging and necessary jobs -- don't know how to recognize "normal" when they see it. American has no "normal" anymore, and everyone acts based on their greatest fears, informed by our weird local news, NCIS/Law&Order fear-mongering mentality. We used to have class divisions that kept things a little normal within class lines, now class divisions have been destroyed such that everyone's caught in a race to the bottom.

1b) I like to think I'm not really subject to #1, being an upper middle class white professional... but I live in a relatively urban environment, with a pre-teen child, and there's a sense that one socially construed "accident" can send me into a can of worms that can take years to climb out of. So, until then, I'll assume I'm relatively untouchable, because I'm not really sure what else my option is. I can see relocating, to one of my international anchor points.. permanently, at some point.

2) There's a strong tinge of "fuck them" or "they have no right" or "they shouldn't" in a lot of American interactions now, whether formal or otherwise. People are endlessly bothered by things they aren't affected by. I mean, it's not everywhere...

American culture is now a corporate construct designed to make everyone in its demographic purview feel strongly about something that doesn't matter to them, whether it's escapees with big dicks or the Kardashians. Radio plays the same 10 songs over and over and over again so you have to hit scan and your radio takes you through stations back to news anchor talking about news that doesn't matter. And if you get home and turn on the TV you're assaulted by the local news anchors with "news you can trust" or weather reports "you can count on", and when you ignore that your co-worker at work will just force it down your throat anyway, and you'll pretend to go along with it so as to have some minor smidgeon of false rapport, lest you come off as anti-social or.. critical.

I was just at a farmer's market tonight where kids ran free and cops patted kids on the head and dogs were off leash and people were eating ice cream and yelling and laughing. But it just takes one person, with a spiteful "I'll get 'em..." trigger to bring an invisible avalanche into the room. I think it's worse in urban areas and in suburban areas, which is why I've been living in medium sized "towns" with urban centers. There seems to be less of that in that kind of neighborly construct. But neither can we talk about places like urban California, suburban California, and rural California in equal terms that cover those places, but also midwestern areas or southern areas or bible belt areas. We're not one country anymore, and we have no norms, and people are always told that someone, somewhere is taking shit from them, whether it's terrorists, the emboldened, or the entitled. There are each of those, but fewer bothering each of us in actuality. But lots of people can't see the normal in the normal anymore, either.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#34
post #16

Here's a similar case where a writer left her son in her car for a few minutes in a parking lot at a store: http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the...

"At the time of the incident, he never mentioned what had happened, and I assumed that he was unaware, that the best thing would be not to bring it up. But, of course, kids are astute observers and somewhere along the line, he figured it out.

I got out of the car one day to feed the parking meter next to the driver side window. “Don’t, Mommy. Don’t. The police will come.” I went to let the dog into our front yard while he was watching his morning cartoon. “Mommy, no!!! The police.”

One afternoon after his swim lesson, he came out of the bathroom and for a second didn’t see me — I’d kneeled down to get his shoes from their cubby. When I looked up he was crying. “Mommy, mommy, I thought someone was going to steal me.”

That evening I sat him down and tried to explain it. I told him that he was right, that mommy had left him in the car for a few minutes one time and that was a mistake. I wasn’t supposed to do that. But it was all going to be fine now. Mommy wasn’t going to jail. And no one was going to kidnap him!

“Most people,” I told him, “are not trying to hurt you. Most people are good people. Do you understand? You don’t have to be afraid?”

He nodded slowly, but I could see from his face that he only half believed me."

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#35
While the story is of course fucked up the comments about CPS being some kind brownshirt-nanny corps are perhaps a bit overblown? There are actually people who do more harm than good to their kids and that's the reason I suppose these procedures exist.

I would say it is the 'common standard' of what constitues a negligence that is the twisted thing here. Normal kids don't need a 24 hour supervisor once they go to school.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#37
post #30
post #14

I hate to be that person but this isn't the actions of a country that prides itself as being free. Sadly, it's not an isolated case either. I've read numerous similar accounts of such things occurring. Along with the "lemonade stand permit", it's bewildering. I realise that in the grand scheme, these are fairly unique but you simply don't hear about such things happening in Europe, in Australia or in the middle and f…

There are many things. First, Florida is odd. Dave Barry made his career out of odd things happening in Miami. Perhaps more accurately, the us has a large population. It's roughly the same size as all of western europe. With 350 million independent agents running around, you'll get some funky edge cases. And C, I think everyone is susceptible to abuse of power. There are a million stories of HOA (home owner associati…

You make some good points, I'm definitely not hating on the US because I've lived there on for a number of years on a couple of occasions and I love the place. I'd love to actually settle there one day.

I suppose with a nation as big as the US and the media presence there, it would probably be much more difficult to hide such stories as it would in various European nations.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#38
post #22
post #14

I hate to be that person but this isn't the actions of a country that prides itself as being free. Sadly, it's not an isolated case either. I've read numerous similar accounts of such things occurring. Along with the "lemonade stand permit", it's bewildering. I realise that in the grand scheme, these are fairly unique but you simply don't hear about such things happening in Europe, in Australia or in the middle and f…

in Australia So, in Victoria at least, it was recently made illegal to leave your kids in the car for any length of time. Going inside to pay at the petrol station? Take your kids with you. Admittedly it's not going to end you up in the middle of the story in the article, and you're going to have to be pretty unlucky to find a cop who's enough of a dickhead to apply this law apropos of no other issues, but technicall…

Crazy. I'm up in the Northern Territory and it feels like anything goes here. (Almost).

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#39
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the parents simply contacted the author with the story and asked not to be named. It's kind of pointless journalism though if you have no verifiable facts. In some other stories she uses real and full names; she has a TV show and is a published author; I don't feel like she made this up.

Having a reality TV show and running a popular blog would make me think they're more likely to spin or embellish things.

Or simply not probe too deeply into a really perfect story about how horrible things have gotten. Might not be the case here but, if it were, hardly unique. See, for example, this discussion of the Rolling Stone Duke story: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-05-21/a-messy-ans...

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#40

I say this literally every time a story like this pops up but, as ever, I'll say it again: Have the (adults) in charge completely lost their minds? Is the government so out of touch with reality that this makes sense to them? I loved going on walks or riding my bike to the shops or sleeping in/playing at home when i was 10 or 11, and yet now this seems all but impossible to consider? How the hell did this happen?

I read absurd stories like this and try to understand how so many individual people who are involved drop the ball. All it would (should) take is one person involved to have the nerve(as if it should take nerve) to speak up and say "this is ridiculous".

In this case (assuming this story is true, but there's no shortage of similar stories if this one isn't), it took a fucking child to have the nerve to state the obvious:

* But then, according to Cindy, "My son spoke up." He said he wanted to talk to the judge. Surprised, their lawyer asked the boy: Did he have the courage to go through with this? And would he tell the truth? The boy said yes. "He went back there and spoke to the judge for about ten minutes," said Cindy. "And then the judge came out and called the two lawyers to the bench and talked to them for about 10 or 15 minutes. And with that, our lawyer came to us and said that if we admitted that we didn't know that it was wrong to [let our son] stay in the backyard, but that we know now that it's wrong and we will never let it happen again, and that we will explain this to our son, he would let the children come with us."

Cindy and Fred promised. The judge released the kids and closed the case. *

I wonder, how does this happen, and why does it happen mostly in western countries?

My best theory is, unless you are a true revolutionary/disruptor, if you are just well-above-average skill, but not Elon Musk level, your easiest ride is just playing the system. This case (ignoring that it shouldn't have even happened in the first place) could have been closed immediately, if people in the justice system were interested in administering justice. But they're not - they are interested in revenue. Stretching cases like this out for weeks / months increases (or at least maintains) federal funding requirements, but it also pulls external money into the system (defense fees) that goes to your brothers and sisters you attended law school with. Think of the $ this one case generated, and it's just a kid hanging out in his back yard!

It's not just the legal system that is like this, although it's one of the worst offenders. I see similar behavior working in IT (in medium to large companies)- things that are obviously easy to fix, problems that aren't difficult to solve (or don't even need solving at all) turn into multi-hundred-thousand, or even multi-million $ projects. And if you say "wait a minute, does this make sense what we're doing", your head will shortly be cut off, because so many people have skin in the game. But if you just keep your mouth shut and go with the flow, you can make an entire career out of it.

Post reply on HN