“Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975) • Hacker News Board

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#31

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 2:12 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #15

tdicola wrote: post #8

Although 13 was quite a near-disaster, I'm surprised that there isn't just as much attention to how much 11 very nearly was a disaster too. During 11's descent to the moon the LEM's computer was overloaded and started throwing alarms. In addition Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin realized the craft overshot its intended landing spot and was heading for a field of rocks and boulders where landing would be impossible. Wha…

"In fact when they tried to test it on Earth, it very nearly killed him [...] Without Neil Armstrong Apollo 11 very likely would have ended with Richard Nixon reading this somber message" Not necessarily. It can be argued that Neil Armstrong should have aborted the landing, rather than risk it with so little safety room. After all, if he couldn't reliably do it on earth, how can you argue that it was purely his intel…

[deleted]

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#32

Post by mjgoins » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

peeters wrote: post #30

> Since Apollo 13 many people have asked me, "Did you have suicide pills on board?" I would have to imagine that if the circumstances made it obvious that returning to Earth was impossible, the astronauts probably would have chosen to end their days on the surface of the moon. Assuming the LM could land with three on board.

Unless they cared about preserving the state of the moon for future scientists without leaving human corpses lying around.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#33

Post by larrymcp » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #4

tantalor wrote: post #2

Do people put these background patterns behind text expressly to hamper legibility?

According to a comment in the source, the page seems to be from 2001, when people didn't know better. Also look at that tell-tale footer!

A few more years from now, people are going to ask about web pages from 2015: "why did everybody's blog have light grey text on a white background everywhere? They must have had excellent visual acuity back in 2015"

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#34

Post by gumby » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

tdicola wrote: post #8

Although 13 was quite a near-disaster, I'm surprised that there isn't just as much attention to how much 11 very nearly was a disaster too. During 11's descent to the moon the LEM's computer was overloaded and started throwing alarms. In addition Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin realized the craft overshot its intended landing spot and was heading for a field of rocks and boulders where landing would be impossible. Wha…

> Neil's landing is in my mind just as amazing as the recovery of 13.

You're giving short shrift to Aldrin (and the training they all received) by calling it "Neil's landing". The whole team (Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins) were extraordinary.

What made this clear to me was reading the transcripts of the LEM flight recorder (can't find them right now, just the audio, but they are on the NASA web site). I read Aldrin reading out meter values to Armstrong, who was looking out the window.. then realized that Aldrin couldn't see out the window and wasn't giving out readings in a fixed order! Instead he was scanning all the readings and relaying what he thought he'd want to know if he'd been the one looking out the window (without knowing what Armstrong could see). And Armstrong never asked for a reading; he assumed Aldrin was telling him just what he needed to know and nothing else.

That reflects an extraordinary degree of training trust and teamwork.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#35

Post by mikeash » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 3:30 PM UTC

peeters wrote: post #30

> Since Apollo 13 many people have asked me, "Did you have suicide pills on board?" I would have to imagine that if the circumstances made it obvious that returning to Earth was impossible, the astronauts probably would have chosen to end their days on the surface of the moon. Assuming the LM could land with three on board.

Buzz Aldrin was asked how he would spend his last hours alive on the moon if the ascent engine had failed to light and left them stranded.

His reply was that he would spend that time trying to fix the engine.

I don't think they ever would have given up like that. You keep trying things to save it until you're dead, even if it's obvious that you're not going to make it.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#36

Post by exDM69 » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 3:32 PM UTC

tantalor wrote: post #2

Do people put these background patterns behind text expressly to hamper legibility?

Because a pattern like that looks quite alright with a contemporary 800x600 resolution 15" CRT monitor, probably a lot more pleasant than black text on plain white background.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#37

Post by Symmetry » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 3:37 PM UTC

mjgoins wrote: post #32

peeters wrote: post #30

> Since Apollo 13 many people have asked me, "Did you have suicide pills on board?" I would have to imagine that if the circumstances made it obvious that returning to Earth was impossible, the astronauts probably would have chosen to end their days on the surface of the moon. Assuming the LM could land with three on board.

Unless they cared about preserving the state of the moon for future scientists without leaving human corpses lying around.

The astronauts left an awful lot of stuff on the moon but luckily the moon is a big place - a few people entombed there in the lander wouldn't make any difference.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#38

Post by exDM69 » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 3:43 PM UTC

fjarlq wrote: post #19

tdicola wrote: post #8

Although 13 was quite a near-disaster, I'm surprised that there isn't just as much attention to how much 11 very nearly was a disaster too. During 11's descent to the moon the LEM's computer was overloaded and started throwing alarms. In addition Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin realized the craft overshot its intended landing spot and was heading for a field of rocks and boulders where landing would be impossible. Wha…

There was no way Neil could have really prepared for a manual landing in the low gravity of the moon. In fact when they tried to test it on Earth, it very nearly killed him That seems like an incomplete summary of the story. You're neglecting to mention all the successful flights Armstrong had in the LLRV, not to mention the successful training he received on its successor, the LLTV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun…

The Lunar Landing Research Vehicle was jokingly known as "the only thing more dangerous than landing on the moon". Three LLRV/LLTV craft were destroyed in crashes where the pilot ejected. Despite this, the LLRV was instrumental in making the lunar landings successful.

When future astronauts will train for the next lunar landing, it will surely be done in computer simulations. While it's obviously safer, the element of danger in the LLRV was probably quite character building. Armstrong had nerves of steel when he landed the Eagle in a field of house-sized boulders with just seconds of fuel remaining and alarms ringing in the cockpit.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#39

Post by FlannelPancake » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

> With the wisdom of hindsight, I should have said, "Hold it. Wait a second. I'm riding on this spacecraft. Just go out and replace that tank."

That's crazy. I didn't realize the tank was acting funny before they even took off. To me, the risk-adverse non-astronaut, that seems like something that would've triggered big ominous "DANGER" signs going off in my head.

I guess that's the benefit of hindsight, though.

Re: “Houston, We've Had a Problem” (1975)

#40

Post by jschwartzi » Sat, Jun 06, 2015, 4:00 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #35

peeters wrote: post #30

> Since Apollo 13 many people have asked me, "Did you have suicide pills on board?" I would have to imagine that if the circumstances made it obvious that returning to Earth was impossible, the astronauts probably would have chosen to end their days on the surface of the moon. Assuming the LM could land with three on board.

Buzz Aldrin was asked how he would spend his last hours alive on the moon if the ascent engine had failed to light and left them stranded. His reply was that he would spend that time trying to fix the engine. I don't think they ever would have given up like that. You keep trying things to save it until you're dead, even if it's obvious that you're not going to make it.

To me, it's more important to realize that you're never not going to make it. You're either trying to make it or you've already failed.