Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

blogs.wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 43 posts

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#31

Post by sridca »

gandharv90 wrote: post #30
andrewstuart wrote: post #14

All this says to me is Snapdeal doesn't know how to recruit. There are LOTS of companies that are actually finding a sense of validation and satisfaction in not being able to find people - it makes them feel elite and special. It's a sort of non-recruiting that boosts the corporate ego. "We are so awesome that we just can't even find ANYONE as awesome as us." There's no shortage of programming talent. Only a shortage…

Well they are not talking about developer. They are talking about technology specialist, which India severely lack. One of the reason is where in India would you study enough to become a specialist. You will have to go to a foreign University and hence India will have to hire people from outside India.

As someone born and raised in India, I find attitudes like this quite annoying. Programmers tend to be passionate and self-learners; you want an university to teach you? Look at what some programmers from Tamil Nadu came up with: http://hasura.io/

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#32

Post by bovermyer »

muktabh wrote: post #25

Some interview anecdotes from India (Not all mine) : For an SDE interview obsessed with binary trees after around 4 possible traversals, the fifth one was: "Can you write code to traverse Binary-Tree in a zigzag manner ?" "seriously ?" Rejected. Questions asked in a PHP dev interview: "Can you write code to invert this link list ?" "Yeah I could in college, but I haven't touched C for last 5 years. I can explain the…

This makes me very curious about the culture around the Indian tech industry. Why does there appear to be no encouragement for exploration or experimentation? Further, why does there seem to be a strong emphasis on prestige? For example, I know full well how powerful and prestigious Google is, but that doesn't make me want to work there. I get the sense that that kind of attitude is not common in India.

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#33

Post by sridca »

bovermyer wrote: post #32
muktabh wrote: post #25

Some interview anecdotes from India (Not all mine) : For an SDE interview obsessed with binary trees after around 4 possible traversals, the fifth one was: "Can you write code to traverse Binary-Tree in a zigzag manner ?" "seriously ?" Rejected. Questions asked in a PHP dev interview: "Can you write code to invert this link list ?" "Yeah I could in college, but I haven't touched C for last 5 years. I can explain the…

This makes me very curious about the culture around the Indian tech industry. Why does there appear to be no encouragement for exploration or experimentation? Further, why does there seem to be a strong emphasis on prestige? For example, I know full well how powerful and prestigious Google is, but that doesn't make me want to work there. I get the sense that that kind of attitude is not common in India.

Indian society has traditionally enforced collectivistic values.

From a young age, be they a male or female, one is conditioned to unwittingly absorb the various rules and responsibilities of a narrow lifestyle (get married at ~25; have babies; earn a living; stay married till death; have grandbabies) that there is little space and time for creative pursuits.

It is all thankfully changing now of course.

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#34

Post by tamaatar »

muktabh wrote: post #25

Some interview anecdotes from India (Not all mine) : For an SDE interview obsessed with binary trees after around 4 possible traversals, the fifth one was: "Can you write code to traverse Binary-Tree in a zigzag manner ?" "seriously ?" Rejected. Questions asked in a PHP dev interview: "Can you write code to invert this link list ?" "Yeah I could in college, but I haven't touched C for last 5 years. I can explain the…

This I can certainly relate to. In India wherever you go in the IT industry you are expected to forget about your life,family and just focus on minting money for your employer and for Shitty pay.

I have 10 years experience in the industry and I have worked for bodyshops,niche hip companies and for awesome startup(s). In all of them,shamelessly expecting you to work extra hours, sometime 15+ is a norm. And when it comes to paying you for it, you are handed a nice package of politics and bullshit. I kind of admire people who somehow manage to use politics or whatever to actually chill and not work at all. At least they are less stressed. Not good programmers in India. yeah right. Pay them well. care about their life and create a reputation for your company to do that and see how they come to you.

Its not just the employer's fault really. I am now in a different country and nobody expects anyone to work after 6. because nobody will do that. We Indians accept it ourselves. A lot of them actually take pride in having no life and spending all the time in office. I hate them from the bottom of my heart.

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#35

Post by muktabh »

bovermyer wrote: post #32
muktabh wrote: post #25

Some interview anecdotes from India (Not all mine) : For an SDE interview obsessed with binary trees after around 4 possible traversals, the fifth one was: "Can you write code to traverse Binary-Tree in a zigzag manner ?" "seriously ?" Rejected. Questions asked in a PHP dev interview: "Can you write code to invert this link list ?" "Yeah I could in college, but I haven't touched C for last 5 years. I can explain the…

This makes me very curious about the culture around the Indian tech industry. Why does there appear to be no encouragement for exploration or experimentation? Further, why does there seem to be a strong emphasis on prestige? For example, I know full well how powerful and prestigious Google is, but that doesn't make me want to work there. I get the sense that that kind of attitude is not common in India.

No. I think that is because most Indians are too low on resources to experiment with their life. This hence has evolved into a culture, where safe (prestigious) jobs (and now safe startups) are the only ones considered good.

I recently started a startup building a product which does not cater to the "hot" sectors like e-commerce and convincing people (we're B2B) to take a risk (for anything, even a free trial) is really hard. Also a innovative solution is generally looked with suspicion (I dont blame people for this, most shiny things here are frauds). I hope we can change this in the long run.

I wrote more on this (just yesterday) here: https://medium.com/@muktabh/why-is-a-pure-technology-startup...

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#36

Post by tamaatar »

izolate wrote: post #16

I'm a bit out of touch. How are the salaries for software developers in India these days? A few years ago it was pathetic. Could be a factor, though. Sometimes I really feel like going back to India and starting a development bootcamp in my hometown of Chandigarh. Reading articles like these brings me a few steps closer to actualising that desire.

relative to inflation, hasn't increased much. also, fine if you are single but once you have a family with kids, you feel the pinch even if you are with one of the big ones. The biggest issue for me is the time. Do politics, become PM and then chill all you want. As a techie, you will not have much time for family. Also, as a techie you still hit the ceiling very soon. If you are happy with the job abroad, stay there. Its not as rosy in India as the media somehow shows you.

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#37

Post by amalantony06 »

gandharv90 wrote: post #30
andrewstuart wrote: post #14

All this says to me is Snapdeal doesn't know how to recruit. There are LOTS of companies that are actually finding a sense of validation and satisfaction in not being able to find people - it makes them feel elite and special. It's a sort of non-recruiting that boosts the corporate ego. "We are so awesome that we just can't even find ANYONE as awesome as us." There's no shortage of programming talent. Only a shortage…

Well they are not talking about developer. They are talking about technology specialist, which India severely lack. One of the reason is where in India would you study enough to become a specialist. You will have to go to a foreign University and hence India will have to hire people from outside India.

This is such a stupid comment. There are lots of specialists in India, isn't it possible that Snapdeal just doesn't appeal to them? Snapdeal is not exactly building anything ground breaking and a job at Snapdeal is nothing to write home about, for a specialist. They just come off as a shitty Flipkart/Amazon clone. All of my experiences buying from them was unsatisfactory.

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#38

Post by kamaal »

These start ups don't get the talent they need, because they purposefully don't hire the talent they need. Atleast three times in the past I've had recruiters tell me these yet to be named start up's can't hire me because they hire from the IIT's only. In short don't bother to apply if you don't belong to our self congratulatory crowd. One time I was told this in an onsite interview, I had to tell them on their face if such was the case they need to tell me before hand, instead of wasting my time having me travel to their place.

And the interview methods are so badly broken, you are only likely to hire mugpots who memorize math theorems and repeat them in interviews. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying algorithm knowledge isn't important, but these people aren't test your algorithm skills, they are testing your skills to repeat the algorithms you memorized. Honestly I don't know of any serious math problem worth solving can be solved in minutes, unless you already know about it(Or you are Terrence Tao or Gregori Perelman). Which in case your are not testing problem solving skills, you are testing how many problem solution sets the candidate has memorized.

Now guess how people get around these interviews. Most people who ace these interviews are from so called elite colleges nearly spend all the time in the day on interview forums. Instead of actually working. And since they spend so much time there, they feel obligated to use that effort in switching jobs more often for better pay. This leads to a big crowd of people who abandon projects mid way only to hop from one company to another. All the while day productivity at offices being very low.

Now if you are hiring such people why should you complain? You are getting exactly what you wanted.

Hire for productivity and for people's commitment to make your projects and company successful. The results will follow.

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#39

Post by brianbreslin »

tamaatar wrote: post #34
muktabh wrote: post #25

Some interview anecdotes from India (Not all mine) : For an SDE interview obsessed with binary trees after around 4 possible traversals, the fifth one was: "Can you write code to traverse Binary-Tree in a zigzag manner ?" "seriously ?" Rejected. Questions asked in a PHP dev interview: "Can you write code to invert this link list ?" "Yeah I could in college, but I haven't touched C for last 5 years. I can explain the…

This I can certainly relate to. In India wherever you go in the IT industry you are expected to forget about your life,family and just focus on minting money for your employer and for Shitty pay. I have 10 years experience in the industry and I have worked for bodyshops,niche hip companies and for awesome startup(s). In all of them,shamelessly expecting you to work extra hours, sometime 15+ is a norm. And when it com…

what is a bodyshop? in the united states a body shop is where they repair cars

Re: India’s Snapdeal Says the Country Doesn’t Have the Programmers It Needs

#40

Post by kamaal »

bovermyer wrote: post #32
muktabh wrote: post #25

Some interview anecdotes from India (Not all mine) : For an SDE interview obsessed with binary trees after around 4 possible traversals, the fifth one was: "Can you write code to traverse Binary-Tree in a zigzag manner ?" "seriously ?" Rejected. Questions asked in a PHP dev interview: "Can you write code to invert this link list ?" "Yeah I could in college, but I haven't touched C for last 5 years. I can explain the…

This makes me very curious about the culture around the Indian tech industry. Why does there appear to be no encouragement for exploration or experimentation? Further, why does there seem to be a strong emphasis on prestige? For example, I know full well how powerful and prestigious Google is, but that doesn't make me want to work there. I get the sense that that kind of attitude is not common in India.

>>Why does there appear to be no encouragement for exploration or experimentation?

Herd mentality. You are considered good if you are from childhood scoring good grades, ace all the entrance exams, enter a reputed institution, score a good job in campus placement. Any deviation from this is considered dangerous by the herd, to existence of the herd itself.

After all if one could get good by exploration and experimentation. All the effort the herd spent in being good guys since they were born, following all the rules of the society would be a colossal waste.

Post reply on HN