CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes • Hacker News Board

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#31

Post by crimsonalucard » Mon, May 18, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

jsaxton86 wrote: post #6

One of the biggest problems with politics is that politicians need to raise a lot of money to get (re)elected. That money comes with strings attached, which makes it difficult for our politicians to make good decisions. I had never considered that the same problem exists in academia, but apparently it does. Hamm has donated tens of millions to the University of Oklahoma, and it's pretty obvious he's trying to use his…

I read a book on this that describes the money/politics problem as two categories:

A Guardian Syndrome, and a Commerce Syndrome. Both syndromes are efficient and well when independent, but it's when the categories begin to merge that you begin to get problems and conflict of interest.

I recommend people to check out the book. It's a great analysis of the nature of corruption from a very cultural, anthropological and economic perspective. It's a refreshing angle from the typical character assassinations you see in the news. It's called Systems of Survival by Jane Jacobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_of_Survival

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#32

Post by hospes » Mon, May 18, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

University of Oklahoma is a public University, which means it's employees are state employees. If I am not mistaken technically Governor of the state is their boss.

Isn't it a crime to intimidate state employee?

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#33

Post by mathattack » Mon, May 18, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #27

mathattack wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What surprises me isn't that Universities need money, it's how cheap they're willing to sell themselves. $20 million allows one guy to push around a university with an endowment and budget both more than 50x that. [1] Generally naming rights involve doubling the endowment of a school. And of course you get some added influence, but $20 million in Oklahoma seems like it wouldn't even pay for 5 years of the football co…

> What surprises me isn't that Universities need money, it's how cheap they're willing to sell themselves. $20 million allows one guy to push around a university with an endowment and budget both more than 50x that. That's not cheap when you compare it to politics. $5-10M a year for Lockheed Martin helps it win trillion dollar projects like the F-35. https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D00000010...

No wonder they say that lobbying is more efficient than R&D!

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#34

Post by Loughla » Mon, May 18, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #9

Aqueous wrote: post #4

""Mr. Hamm absolutely did not ask to be on the search committee or to have anyone from Continental put onto the committee, nor did he ask that anyone from the Oklahoma Geological Survey be dismissed," [Vice President of Public Affairs of University of Oklahoma Catherine Bishop] wrote. Email, just paragraphs earlier in the article, from Hamm, verbatim : "I would be very interested and willing to sit on your search com…

If you get caught doing something like this, you might as well just blatantly lie. You won't make it worse, and at least some people will believe your lie. Why not try it? (Aside from morals, but it seems we can hardly rely on that.)

Actually, that's not a bad approach. Most people ingest small pieces of news through headlines or whatever the talking heads spout out every ten minutes.

So, lying about it gets you at least a portion of people on your side, because they'll never dig in even a cursory manner, and just believe what they're told.

I assume older folks are susceptible through those yelling news talk shows. I wonder what the impact of click-bait headlines and what-not are for the younger set.

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#35

Post by eli_gottlieb » Mon, May 18, 2015, 5:55 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #19

nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature is a socialist.

Nature is really the ultimate capitalist. Survival of the fittest. No safety nets, no sympathy for the losers... they just go extinct.

Cooperation evolved every bit as naturally as competition.

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#36

Post by sangnoir » Mon, May 18, 2015, 6:05 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #19

nickthemagicman wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature is a socialist.

Nature is really the ultimate capitalist. Survival of the fittest. No safety nets, no sympathy for the losers... they just go extinct.

It's not that black and white. Ant colonies are ultimate socialist societies - communist even. From each ant according to its ability, to each according to its need

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#37

Post by tzs » Mon, May 18, 2015, 6:13 PM UTC

If something related to fracking ever appears on my ballot, I'll vote against the frackers not because I necessarily think there is anything wrong with fracking, but rather because they have worked hard to make it harder for us to find out if there is anything wrong with fracking.

In addition to trying to hamper research into the possible connection between fracking and earthquakes, they have worked hard to prevent scientists from finding out what exactly they are putting in the ground (each company has its own proprietary formula for the fluids they use). This means when investigating the possibility of fracking fluids getting into drinking water, the scientists cannot look at what is in the water and match it to what the frackers put in the ground. Sadly, we've put so much stuff into the ground for such a long time, that it is actually possible that it is not fracking that is a source of the contamination where drinking water has been found to be contaminated near fracking sites.

I have a similar policy on ballot issues related to guns. Congress, as a result of NRA lobbying, has made it so there is almost no government funding available for research into gun violence, which is one of the biggest reasons that we have no idea if gun control is helpful, harmful, or neutral.

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#38

Post by lsd5you » Mon, May 18, 2015, 6:34 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #36

ams6110 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature is really the ultimate capitalist. Survival of the fittest. No safety nets, no sympathy for the losers... they just go extinct.

It's not that black and white. Ant colonies are ultimate socialist societies - communist even. From each ant according to its ability, to each according to its need

Except ant colonies are really just big families motivated by kin selection. I don't think altruism comes into it.

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#39

Post by greenpresident » Mon, May 18, 2015, 6:39 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #27

mathattack wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What surprises me isn't that Universities need money, it's how cheap they're willing to sell themselves. $20 million allows one guy to push around a university with an endowment and budget both more than 50x that. [1] Generally naming rights involve doubling the endowment of a school. And of course you get some added influence, but $20 million in Oklahoma seems like it wouldn't even pay for 5 years of the football co…

> What surprises me isn't that Universities need money, it's how cheap they're willing to sell themselves. $20 million allows one guy to push around a university with an endowment and budget both more than 50x that. That's not cheap when you compare it to politics. $5-10M a year for Lockheed Martin helps it win trillion dollar projects like the F-35. https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D00000010...

Here is a description of the phenomenon, recently linked on daringfireball:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullock_paradox

Re: CEO Wanted University Scientists Dismissed Over Link Between Fracking and Quakes

#40

Post by IndianAstronaut » Mon, May 18, 2015, 6:47 PM UTC

nmrm2 wrote: post #8

jsaxton86 wrote: post #6

One of the biggest problems with politics is that politicians need to raise a lot of money to get (re)elected. That money comes with strings attached, which makes it difficult for our politicians to make good decisions. I had never considered that the same problem exists in academia, but apparently it does. Hamm has donated tens of millions to the University of Oklahoma, and it's pretty obvious he's trying to use his…

>I'm surprised it isn't working. Remember this next time someone suggests getting rid of tenure or cutting federal research funding. Especially for areas of research that are politically or economically hot (climate/environment, privacy, etc.)

This is actually the main reason for tenure. It is to protect intellectual freedom. Granted, nowadays due to excessive abuses by lazy faculty, the whole system is likely to die a slow death.