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Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

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Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#31

Post by ramblerman »

krig wrote: post #24
chroma wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. Remember the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon ? I doubt the Mormons liked the play's content, but they responded to it positively. In some venues, they even took out ads in the playbill. Do you think it would be possible for Trey Parker and Matt Stone to make a similar production about the Qu'ran? Even in the US, it would…

Disgusting. Other religions are perfectly capable of inspiring similar acts. Look at all the atrocities committed throughout history in the name of christianity: The imperial conquests of Africa and America were conducted in the name of spreading christianity and with the blessing of the church. American fundamentalists regularly murder abortion doctors in the name of religion. Breivik is a "christian warrior" defend…

1857 and christianity throughout history....

Should we not be focusing on the current problems at hand? The inquisition was one of the darkest most disgusting things I've ever read about, I'm no proponent of Catholicism. But I don't see the value of pointing to something behind you when there is a ten ton elephant charging at you from the front.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#32

Post by reinhardt »

notahacker wrote: post #25
chroma wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. Remember the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon ? I doubt the Mormons liked the play's content, but they responded to it positively. In some venues, they even took out ads in the playbill. Do you think it would be possible for Trey Parker and Matt Stone to make a similar production about the Qu'ran? Even in the US, it would…

Interesting you should pick the example of the Mormons, a religious organization whose founder was killed by an angry mob of seceders from his church... Anyone that would suggest that the propensity of Islamic fundamentalists towards violence is particularly unusual amongst religious adherents has a remarkably inadequate grasp of history.

Even if historically all religions have had their share of atrocities, the point is that Islam today is like the rest of the world has been in the Middle Ages. Hopefully they'll get there in a few centuries, at least if they haven't conquered (explicitly through wars or implicitly through immigration) the West by then.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#33

Post by brlewis »

themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

Religion is a pretense for violence, not the original motivation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pape#Dying_to_Win

Human power structures are what you should fear. A human in a powerful position will be motivated to silence voices that threaten that power.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#34

Post by Shihan »

krig wrote: post #24
chroma wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. Remember the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon ? I doubt the Mormons liked the play's content, but they responded to it positively. In some venues, they even took out ads in the playbill. Do you think it would be possible for Trey Parker and Matt Stone to make a similar production about the Qu'ran? Even in the US, it would…

Disgusting. Other religions are perfectly capable of inspiring similar acts. Look at all the atrocities committed throughout history in the name of christianity: The imperial conquests of Africa and America were conducted in the name of spreading christianity and with the blessing of the church. American fundamentalists regularly murder abortion doctors in the name of religion. Breivik is a "christian warrior" defend…

Religion is not simply another excuse it can also be a big motivational factor. It is too easy to just say "religion has nothing to do with it" or "it could have been any other religion".

If you look at the islamic doctrine and also the islamic history you will see that already Muhammad had critics of him and his religion be killed. That's mainstream islamic knowledge and doctrine and in the islamic world people wouldn't even be ashamed to admit that as it is normal ("divine") law for them. In the non-muslim world of course muslims don't go advertising about those part of their religion because they know that those parts aren't accepted and seen as something normal/positive. It's then easier to say "but your religion was bad too" - but that's just a "And you are lynching negroes" kind of argument. We don't need those kind of arguments we need a discussion for example why somebody who led his critics be killed should be seen as a role model.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#35

Post by arethuza »

themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

Your comment reminded me the scene from Kingdom of Heaven where religion is discussed:

I put no stock in Religion. By the word of religion, I've seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the "Will of God". I've seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. And goodness - what God desires - [pointing at his head then heart] is here and here. And what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man, [smiles] or not.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#36

Post by notdonspaulding »

themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

    > I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a better place.
Then you fail to see any progress the US has made in the world at large in the past 200 years. The US was founded on the Judeo-Christian ethic.

http://www.godandculture.com/blog/ravi-zacharias-on-a-mormon...

    > Organized religion scares and saddens me.
I know you didn't say you were atheist, but just so we're clear: atheism is a religion as well.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/10/atheism-is-a-religion

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#37

Post by cygx »

seren wrote: post #20
chroma wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. Remember the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon ? I doubt the Mormons liked the play's content, but they responded to it positively. In some venues, they even took out ads in the playbill. Do you think it would be possible for Trey Parker and Matt Stone to make a similar production about the Qu'ran? Even in the US, it would…

>Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. It is more complex than that. There is no on one side "good religions" and on the other side "bad religions". It is rather a combination of social and economics factors (education, poverty, exposure to other cultures, frustration, feeling of injustice (real or imagined), corruption, etc) The debate does not really interest m…

There is no on one side "good religions" and on the other side "bad religions".

But not all religious doctrine is equally toxic.

It is rather a combination of social and economics factors (education, poverty, exposure to other cultures, frustration, feeling of injustice (real or imagined), corruption, etc)

But ideology is part of the package. Totalitarianism has to be opposed, whether its doctrine is based on religion (eg Salafism) or secular concepts (eg Nazism).

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#38

Post by dghf »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #29
seren wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, but different religions inspire different propensities towards violence in their hosts. It is more complex than that. There is no on one side "good religions" and on the other side "bad religions". It is rather a combination of social and economics factors (education, poverty, exposure to other cultures, frustration, feeling of injustice (real or imagined), corruption, etc) The debate does not really interest m…

That's just the usual faux complexity and "fair and balanced" smokescreen. Any religion that fundamentally doesn't tolerate the existence of other religions and calls its followers to slaughter those who don't convert is "bad religion". Islam is a "bad religion". There is a fundamental difference between the violent excesses of an ideology, an ideology than almost inevitably leads to violent excesses and an ideology…

> Any religion that fundamentally doesn't tolerate the existence of other religions and calls its followers to slaughter those who don't convert is "bad religion". Islam is a "bad religion".

Well, if that's what Islam calls its followers to do, it's a good job most of those followers don't pay any attention. Even Iran permits Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians to worship within its borders: they are subject to discrimination and harassment, but not forced to convert to Islam under pain of death.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#39

Post by kghose »

themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

Aww, you took a news item about Islamic fundamentalism in Bangladesh and put in a comment about gender politics in the US south. This is sure to get up-voted, because you know, Amerika is bad. But just to be sure, you put in 'I may get downvoted'. That was a cute touch. No one on HN can resist that combination.

Re: Bangladesh blogger Ananta Bijoy Das hacked to death

#40

Post by fit2rule »

themartorana wrote: post #26

Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run. There is very little true tolerance from anyone who wishes religion to guide governing. It may be horribly violent attacks like this in Islam, but just as quickly it pushes for mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds in the U.S. I may get downvoted, but I fail to see how religion will ever help guide the human race to a…

>Religion, held at any level above personal, is destructive to the larger population, in the long run.

This is simply not true. What is true is that group-think which allows people to completely disregard others in such a fashion that they are willing to murder, is destructive to the larger population.

Religion has held together many a society which would have cannibalized itself time and again, over and over. It is simply the desire to abandon morality and murder a fellow living being which must be dealt with, and Religion definitely does not have a monopoly on this facet of our social existence.

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