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Electric brain stimulation decreases IQ scores and racial prejudice

kurzweilai.net

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Re: Electric brain stimulation decreases IQ scores and racial prejudice

#31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything wrong with the quote you posted. It doesn't imply that people of different races are stupid or inferior. It just implies that you expect genetic differences to correlate with all manner of other measures. Respectfully, I think you're reading into it too much.

While there's technically nothing racist about a small variation in intelligence. But this comment leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as we know that. 1. Individual variation in intelligence dwarfs any population level measure with regard to race. 2. The evidence with regard to IQ differences by race is suspect at best, especially because it is unclear that one can accurately control for socioeconomic factors. 3. It wou…

You're probably right with regards to the specific user, and you're probably even correct in saying that most people who bring up this point do it to advance racist ideology.

That said, there are a few points I feel need to be made:

1. Your first argument is an insidious form of the "slippery slope" argument, in effect if not by intent. Just because individual difference eclipse racial ones doesn't mean we can't explore the latter. Just as the handicapped are protected by law in civilized countries, so too can racial minorities, even if it were proven that they are less intelligent.

2. The motives of the original poster are irrelevant. He can be both racist and correct, as unpalatable as that thought may be. The subject is that of scholarly discussion, and what you're doing, knowingly or not, is lowering the discourse by imposing guilt by association.

Before I'm accused of pedantry, I think these two points are critical because in my experience there are two forms of racism:

1. Die-hard, ideological racism, i.e.: "there is a hierarchy of races and the lower strata barely qualify as human".

2. Racism born out of frustration. I find that the overwhelming majority of racists end up identifying as such because they raise valid concerns about (typically Black) culture, demographics and crime, but find their honest (if not valid) points rebuffed with ad hominem attacks. In the end, these people end up saying "Fine. I'm racist. I also have a point."

If we're going to have an honest discussion about race then we need to stop plugging our ears and chanting "racist!" Much of the reasoning behind "Type II" racism is flawed, but it's much more productive to calmly explain why this is the case, than to respond with a knee-jerk "that's racist and therefore wrong". Contentious though it may be, there are many criminal, academic and sociological problems that fall along racial lines, and we need to be able to criticize racial groups in order to move forwards. Denying this, or vilifying those who are frustrated by this state of affairs, creates racists.

If I can't say something to the effect of "[Insert Race Here] generally does [insert thing here] and I think it's a problem because [...]", then we're not having a scholarly discussion; we're having a circle-jerk.

Re: Electric brain stimulation decreases IQ scores and racial prejudice

#32
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Eric S Raymond will try to twist this into supporting his racist preconceptions and agenda. "In the U.S., blacks are 12% of the population but commit 50% of violent crimes; can anyone honestly think this is unconnected to the fact that they average 15 points of IQ lower than the general population? That stupid people are more violent is a fact independent of skin color." -Eric S Raymond http://esr.ibiblio.or…

"Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Actually, I had never heard this quote before. I would say it is relevant and an interesting quote.

It is hard to call something classic if you censor it until it no is no longer seen, heard about, or known.

Re: Electric brain stimulation decreases IQ scores and racial prejudice

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything wrong with the quote you posted. It doesn't imply that people of different races are stupid or inferior. It just implies that you expect genetic differences to correlate with all manner of other measures. Respectfully, I think you're reading into it too much.

While there's technically nothing racist about a small variation in intelligence. But this comment leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as we know that. 1. Individual variation in intelligence dwarfs any population level measure with regard to race. 2. The evidence with regard to IQ differences by race is suspect at best, especially because it is unclear that one can accurately control for socioeconomic factors. 3. It wou…

1. I don't see how this point has any relevance. Of course the variance between outliers in a population is going to differ greater than the variance between population means. What does that have to do with anything? 2. The IQ disparity among the races is well studied, well researched, and well documented. It sounds like you need to do more reading on the subject. 3. So now it's clear that while he was making a general comment about the need to accept the reality of differences among the races, you're making it out to be a comment against black people. Ok. But I'll respond to your tangent: It would be ignorant to assume that the only IQ studies done were on slave-descended, or, as you would call them, "systemically oppressed" African Americans. IQ studies have been conducted world-wide, and regardless of where or when they've been performed, Ashkenazi Jews consistently score the highest, East Asians second highest, Caucasians next, then Hispanics and Latinos, then Blacks.

You seem like someone with an axe to grind.

Re: Electric brain stimulation decreases IQ scores and racial prejudice

#34

Wonderful. You just know that some wag will jump on this and twist this into "It is intelligent to be racist!". Personally, I find the idea of wiring my brain, my self , up to something which zaps it with little to no understanding of the underlying science or function scares the bejesus out of me, and strikes me as a strange at best and stupid at worst thing to do. Ah, let me just pop a leech on this, it'll get my p…

I'm sure Eric S Raymond will try to twist this into supporting his racist preconceptions and agenda. "In the U.S., blacks are 12% of the population but commit 50% of violent crimes; can anyone honestly think this is unconnected to the fact that they average 15 points of IQ lower than the general population? That stupid people are more violent is a fact independent of skin color." -Eric S Raymond http://esr.ibiblio.or…

Oh the quotes! Same link [1],the next paragraph:

"A black man with an IQ of 85 and a white man with an IQ of 85 are about equally likely to have the character traits of poor impulse control and violent behavior associated with criminality — and both are far more likely to have them than a white or black man with an IQ of 110" -Eric S Raymond

1-http://esr.ibiblio.org/index.php?p=129

Re: Electric brain stimulation decreases IQ scores and racial prejudice

#35
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Eric S Raymond will try to twist this into supporting his racist preconceptions and agenda. "In the U.S., blacks are 12% of the population but commit 50% of violent crimes; can anyone honestly think this is unconnected to the fact that they average 15 points of IQ lower than the general population? That stupid people are more violent is a fact independent of skin color." -Eric S Raymond http://esr.ibiblio.or…

"Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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