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Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

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Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#31

Post by baddox »

eli wrote: post #22
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no barrier to entry. Seriously. Mobile apps? Backend infrastructure? Trivial. I take that back; the biggest barrier to entry might be a massive trove of ride data for machine learning used to predict capacity requirements. In large metro areas, you might be able to get this data in an open format, obviating the need for you to gather the data yourself (the recently FOILd New York Cab Ride data comes to mind…

I disagree. The network is the product, not the mobile app. Drivers won't switch to a new app that has no customers and customers won't want an app with no drivers.

Sure, you still probably need some capital to bootstrap the process. Guarantee an hourly rate to drivers for a short period of time, and offer really low prices for passengers.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#32

Post by humanrebar »

baddox wrote: post #29
dankohn1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber is a classic two-sided network [0], like eBay or Craigslist. It is extremely difficult to displace a first-mover advantage. The hundreds of thousands of drivers are set up with Uber and will stick with it unless something new is meaningfully better (and Lyft is currently worse). Same with the users. I think you can be legitimately critical of Uber's poor business ethics [1], but the sustainability of their curre…

The product is a bit more commoditized than with eBay or Craigslist though, right? Above some reasonable level of service, a ride is a ride. Assuming that the friction for switching services for the two sides is relatively low, it seems like there's a clear path to a new competitor starting slow and building both sides of the market at the same rate. But for eBay, the products people want vary vastly from each other.…

There's some variety there. Pet rides. Rides for those with mobility problems. Options for extra trunk space. Options for large groups. Free WiFi. Drivers that speak specific languages. Pickup within five minutes or the ride is free.

And there is always differentiation based on customer service.

I guess I'm saying that there are plenty of niches to fill.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#33

Post by TTPrograms »

simonw wrote: post #26
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh puh-lease! We hear this argument time and again, yet continue to hear anecdotes about drivers who drive for both Lyft and Uber. There is zero friction to install a new app and accept fares via that app, except perhaps how many ridesharing apps you can run at once on your device for accepting passengers.

The challenge is reaching critical mass, where you have enough customers to keep the drivers busy and enough drivers to guarantee a quick pickup. The linked article says Lyft now have an average pickup time in SF of 2.5 minutes. Good luck bootstrapping to that kind of performance with a brand new ride share company starting from scratch.

You're competing on price, and drivers can use all services at the same time. If a driver gets more of the cut from another service they'll use that too - then they'll of course preference requests from the service that pays them more. It just snowballs - there isn't enough friction associated with switching services as a customer or as a driver to prevent competition on price point until the margins are razor, and then you're McDonalds. Which is fine, but you can't assume current margins.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#34

Post by dnautics »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #23
eli wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The network is the product, not the mobile app. Drivers won't switch to a new app that has no customers and customers won't want an app with no drivers.

Oh puh-lease! We hear this argument time and again, yet continue to hear anecdotes about drivers who drive for both Lyft and Uber. There is zero friction to install a new app and accept fares via that app, except perhaps how many ridesharing apps you can run at once on your device for accepting passengers.

yet for some reason (and even with an app that has arguably superior features), sidecar just can't get it up.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#35

Post by Crito »

dnautics wrote: post #34
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh puh-lease! We hear this argument time and again, yet continue to hear anecdotes about drivers who drive for both Lyft and Uber. There is zero friction to install a new app and accept fares via that app, except perhaps how many ridesharing apps you can run at once on your device for accepting passengers.

yet for some reason (and even with an app that has arguably superior features), sidecar just can't get it up.

Have they considered marketing? Because this is the first time I have ever heard of them.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#36

Post by hkmurakami »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #23
eli wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The network is the product, not the mobile app. Drivers won't switch to a new app that has no customers and customers won't want an app with no drivers.

Oh puh-lease! We hear this argument time and again, yet continue to hear anecdotes about drivers who drive for both Lyft and Uber. There is zero friction to install a new app and accept fares via that app, except perhaps how many ridesharing apps you can run at once on your device for accepting passengers.

Demand-side network is the most important. Supply side is relatively trivial compared to this. Look at LINE Taxi which launched in Japan using its demand side network via its messaging platform + instantly creating a huge supply side network via a partnership with existing taxi companies. You can buy supply side but can't buy demand side network.

Drivers using both Lyft and Uber is a perfect demonstration that they care most about the size and liquidity of the demand side of the market. They are using both in order to increase demand side liquidity from their perspective.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#37

Post by borscht »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
gphil wrote: post #5

What I want to know is, when the VC money runs out, what's the barrier to entry to this business? Right now, Uber can beat everybody on price and quality because they don't have to be profitable for a long time. But once they have to compete on price, where's their advantage? Installed user-base? Incumbents forced out of business? Many times I call for an Uber and a cab comes first and then they lose my business to t…

There is no barrier to entry. Seriously. Mobile apps? Backend infrastructure? Trivial. I take that back; the biggest barrier to entry might be a massive trove of ride data for machine learning used to predict capacity requirements. In large metro areas, you might be able to get this data in an open format, obviating the need for you to gather the data yourself (the recently FOILd New York Cab Ride data comes to mind…

Mobile apps? Backend infrastructure? Trivial.

Try building one.

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#39

Post by [deleted] »

borscht wrote: post #37
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no barrier to entry. Seriously. Mobile apps? Backend infrastructure? Trivial. I take that back; the biggest barrier to entry might be a massive trove of ride data for machine learning used to predict capacity requirements. In large metro areas, you might be able to get this data in an open format, obviating the need for you to gather the data yourself (the recently FOILd New York Cab Ride data comes to mind…

Mobile apps? Backend infrastructure? Trivial. Try building one.

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Lyft Document Reveals a Costly Battle with Uber

#40

Post by lazaroclapp »

hkmurakami wrote: post #36
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh puh-lease! We hear this argument time and again, yet continue to hear anecdotes about drivers who drive for both Lyft and Uber. There is zero friction to install a new app and accept fares via that app, except perhaps how many ridesharing apps you can run at once on your device for accepting passengers.

Demand-side network is the most important. Supply side is relatively trivial compared to this. Look at LINE Taxi which launched in Japan using its demand side network via its messaging platform + instantly creating a huge supply side network via a partnership with existing taxi companies. You can buy supply side but can't buy demand side network. Drivers using both Lyft and Uber is a perfect demonstration that they c…

You can buy demand, though. "All rides free for first month" plus a ton of money in advertising will get you plenty of people switching if there is enough supply as well. It's just perhaps too expensive to buy demand when in the end people can switch back to Lyft or Uber just as easily.
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