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Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

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Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#31

Post by Animats »

tsotha wrote: post #6
bpodgursky wrote: post #2

Maybe I'm not the usual passenger, but I realized recently that it's been many years since I've been on a plane larger than a 737 -- and I fly at least once a month. Most of my flights are to/from reasonable sized but not megacities (SF, St Louis, Kansas City, Nashville, Charleston, Phoenix, etc), and since I try for direct flights, I almost always end up on Embraer 145 or 175 or similar small planes. I think at long…

>I think at long as gas prices aren't too high, far more passengers are going to pay a small premium for direct flights on smaller economy planes, and stay away from the 380s and 747s. As an airline you don't get a superjumbo to save fuel or provide more amenities. You get one because you have only so many landing slots in a particular airport and the only way to increase passenger volume is to increase the number of…

"As an airline you don't get a superjumbo to save fuel or provide more amenities."

See Etihad Airways' A380.[1] "Only half the cost of a private jet".

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMr0MsAoeLw

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#33

Post by rwmj »

pmontra wrote: post #29

"We fill our aeroplanes because of the way we design the interiors, the amount of money we spend on the brand, and [in] getting the job done." Is this really how people pick an airline? I type in my destination in a web site, sort the options by price, discard the ones with too many or too inconvenient connections, pick the cheaper. The airline is not so important. The plane definitely not, given that on intercontine…

When I fly to Japan, I prefer to go ANA even if it costs 20-30% more (say an extra £150-200) for the 12 hour flight. Economy is always going to be horrible, but ANA fly a wide body plane (so you get slightly more seat) and have better entertainment.

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#34

Post by gaius »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #8
drpgq wrote: post #4

"Air travel is set to more than double from today's 3.3 billion passengers a year to 7.3 billion by 2034, says the International Air Transport Association" Even with more efficient planes, that's a lot of greenhouse gas emissions.

You can easily take your part off by not flying and not owning a car.

No no no, other people should stop flying. It's important that all those Green lobbyists and politicians get to their many, many international conferences!

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#35

Post by zhte415 »

jpatokal wrote: post #19

There are two major future super-jumbo markets not mentioned here, and they're whoppers: core domestic routes in China and India, eg. Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/Hong Kong and Delhi/Mumbai/Chennai/Hyderabad/Kolkata. The distances are too long to be covered by any form of terrestrial transport, even bullet train (there's already one for BJ-SH, but it takes five hours), and as both countries get richer, demand will grow…

You are super-jumbo correct.

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#36

Post by switch007 »

billforsternz wrote: post #16

A weird thing to watch is three separate Auckland (New Zealand) to Dubai Emirates A380 flights depart 15 minutes apart, every day. Why such huge capacity on this obscure transcontinental route ? These three flights are really Sydney-Dubai, Melbourne-Dubai and Brisbane-Dubai. I heard from someone that the airport fees mean it is cheaper for Emirates to park three A380s in Auckland for most of the day than the Australi…

I went to get my connection in Dubai to Melbourne and was confused by the correct flight number but Auckland destination! I thought there must be a reason for the routing - interesting.

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#37

Post by phillc73 »

pmontra wrote: post #29

"We fill our aeroplanes because of the way we design the interiors, the amount of money we spend on the brand, and [in] getting the job done." Is this really how people pick an airline? I type in my destination in a web site, sort the options by price, discard the ones with too many or too inconvenient connections, pick the cheaper. The airline is not so important. The plane definitely not, given that on intercontine…

Sometimes this is how I choose an airline.

Next week I'm flying Vienna to Sydney. There are only a few one stop options. I wasn't prepared to consider two stops. e.g. Vienna - London - Bangkok - Sydney. This limited my choices somewhat, as only a few airlines fly from Vienna to Sydney, one stop.

Having flown Emirates previously, I thought they provided very good service, the meals were better than average, the in flight entertainment provided a good selection, the seats comfortable etc etc. The stopover time in Dubai is less than three hours. And I know Dubai airport provides complimentary baby strollers, which is a nice touch when traveling with a small child.

I could have flown cheaper, but was happy to pay an extra EUR300 total cost (two adults, one infant) to fly with an airline I'm hoping will provide better than average service.

For short haul, I don't even choose the cheapest option all the time, as I'd rather pay an extra EUR100 to not have to deal with the crap of Ryanair.

For long haul, it's definitely worth paying a little extra for a premium airline.

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#38

Post by vinay427 »

jpatokal wrote: post #19

There are two major future super-jumbo markets not mentioned here, and they're whoppers: core domestic routes in China and India, eg. Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/Hong Kong and Delhi/Mumbai/Chennai/Hyderabad/Kolkata. The distances are too long to be covered by any form of terrestrial transport, even bullet train (there's already one for BJ-SH, but it takes five hours), and as both countries get richer, demand will grow…

Is there a reason Bangalore is not included there? It's the most populous city in the south and is growing rapidly.

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#39

Post by jpatokal »

vinay427 wrote: post #38
jpatokal wrote: post #19

There are two major future super-jumbo markets not mentioned here, and they're whoppers: core domestic routes in China and India, eg. Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou/Hong Kong and Delhi/Mumbai/Chennai/Hyderabad/Kolkata. The distances are too long to be covered by any form of terrestrial transport, even bullet train (there's already one for BJ-SH, but it takes five hours), and as both countries get richer, demand will grow…

Is there a reason Bangalore is not included there? It's the most populous city in the south and is growing rapidly.

No, that should be in the list as well. As should a large number of obscure-outside-China-but-huge Chinese cities like Chongqing, Chengdu, Wuhan, etc.

Re: Are we seeing the end of the era for the 'super-jumbo'?

#40

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ubernostrum wrote: post #15
jballanc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the article really missed on mentioning is ETOPS (which is part of the success story of the 787). If you look at the total distance, there are very few routes that can only be serviced by a 747 or A380. Historically, though, many more routes were services by these 4-engine behemoths because of ETOPS rules ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS ). In a nutshell, ETOPS says how far away a twin-engine plane can be fr…

Another important thing to note is that the A380 has, relative to its size, terrible cargo capacity, and using extra hold space to carry cargo in addition to a load of passengers has historically been a lucrative side business for passenger airlines. There are also doubts about whether it would even be possible, structurally, to do a freighter conversion of an A380, meaning that one of the traditional easy ways to sq…

A freighter version of the A380 was planned right from the start, and some orders were taken. So it's certainly possible.

But that doesn't mean it would be economic.

For various reasons - not least fulfilment delays because of manufacturing issues - the A380F hasn't been prototyped yet, and probably never will be.

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