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Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

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Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#31

Post by palish »

nostrademons wrote: post #29
ClintonKarr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does make one valid point - if you're spending all day contributing to this news section you're probably not working hard enough on your project. Also, I don't believe he was comparing Paul to a 15-year-old musician, but rather screwed up and switched the name of his cousin from Steve to Paul. A freudian comparison perhaps, but not intentional. He failed to communicate his point effectively.

Some of us contribute to yCombinator because we have day jobs and can't work on our startup while on company time. And yet we have bosses that tell us to hold up because they aren't done with the requirements yet. Time is fungible; might as well use our bored-time at work on something semi-productive and free up the time at home for working on the startup. Of course, you could argue that if one really wants their sta…

As to 'When to quit?', I was initially aiming for a savings of $15k, but my savings rate is too slow. I'll be taking the plunge at $10k.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#32

Post by nostrademons »

palish wrote: post #31
nostrademons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us contribute to yCombinator because we have day jobs and can't work on our startup while on company time. And yet we have bosses that tell us to hold up because they aren't done with the requirements yet. Time is fungible; might as well use our bored-time at work on something semi-productive and free up the time at home for working on the startup. Of course, you could argue that if one really wants their sta…

As to 'When to quit?', I was initially aiming for a savings of $15k, but my savings rate is too slow. I'll be taking the plunge at $10k.

Man, I feel silly now. I have several times more than $15K saved up. At grad-school living expenses, perhaps 3 years of runway.

I'm not really sticking with the day job for financial reasons though. I want to see the product I've been working on ship. Get it into the hands of actual paying customers. Because I figure then I'll get to see a whole bunch of other problems that will likely impact the startup too. Much better to make the initial mistakes on someone else's dime.

Problem is, my day job seems to move at a glacial pace. So despite having a 6 month handicap and about 1/5 the number of man-hours available, my startup may launch first. If that happens, I'll probably quit the day job whether it's done or not, because it's just a drag on the startup.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#33

Post by BitGeek »

pg wrote: post #28

If YC is for losers, then Robert and Trevor and I are losers ourselves, because we modelled it on how we started Viaweb. We took $10k in seed funding from our friend Julian, who (since he was a lawyer) also set us up as a company. For us, Julian's help was both a necessary and sufficient condition of getting launched. Nothing has changed since then about life in the seed stage. Sure, maybe you can get to the next sta…

You missed his point. Yes, what you are doing is replicating the situation that worked for you. And this program is probably a good one for students who are still in college and want to build a company over the summer.

But anyone who has left college and is working for a living should be able to save up one months living expenses every month. (EG: make 25 an hour, gross $4k, $3.6k after taxes, live on $1,500 a month or so.) Thus if you work for 6 months as a contract programmer (or better yet as an employee for a startup) you will then have 6 months of expenses to build your business. Thus there's no reason that not getting YC funding should be an impediment to strting a business.

The strong impression I get from people who post here, and the people who attented startupschool is that they are focused on getting funding. They want to go to YC, or move to the bay area for connections to funding. Landing a VC deal is seen as the end goal.

This is not an entreprenurial focus. Were you focused on VC funding for viaweb, or were you trying to build a business?

The original poster is right-- build a business-- that should be the focus. Not getting funding. Not worrying about what you're going to do if you don't get into YC. YC should be seen as a possible opportunity, but not critical to success.

And since YC only happens twice a year and is limited in the number accepted... waiting for the next round of YC indicates that building the business or product is not the number one priority.

As an investor, I'd rate highly someone who was living off of their own savings to build their product-- they have shown the gumption and have even more skin in the game.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#34

Post by palish »

nostrademons wrote: post #32
palish wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to 'When to quit?', I was initially aiming for a savings of $15k, but my savings rate is too slow. I'll be taking the plunge at $10k.

Man, I feel silly now. I have several times more than $15K saved up. At grad-school living expenses, perhaps 3 years of runway. I'm not really sticking with the day job for financial reasons though. I want to see the product I've been working on ship. Get it into the hands of actual paying customers. Because I figure then I'll get to see a whole bunch of other problems that will likely impact the startup too. Much be…

That's still plenty respectable. Woz designed most of the Apple II in his apartment while working at Hewlett Packard. However, (if my memory serves me correctly) he left HP to put the finishing touches on the design before it launched.

So perhaps it might be best to leave when your product is about 80% to the point of launching, because then you can focus full time on actually getting it out the door, and on the aftermath. If you have a day job, it might never seem like it's ready to launch.

But that's just my hypothesis; I don't have any actual experience with that. :)

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#35

Post by nostrademons »

BitGeek wrote: post #33
pg wrote: post #28

If YC is for losers, then Robert and Trevor and I are losers ourselves, because we modelled it on how we started Viaweb. We took $10k in seed funding from our friend Julian, who (since he was a lawyer) also set us up as a company. For us, Julian's help was both a necessary and sufficient condition of getting launched. Nothing has changed since then about life in the seed stage. Sure, maybe you can get to the next sta…

You missed his point. Yes, what you are doing is replicating the situation that worked for you. And this program is probably a good one for students who are still in college and want to build a company over the summer. But anyone who has left college and is working for a living should be able to save up one months living expenses every month. (EG: make 25 an hour, gross $4k, $3.6k after taxes, live on $1,500 a month…

PG et al. were not college students when they started ViaWeb. Actually, I think they were significantly older than the median YC-funded founder.

That said, I'm a little curious about the money aspect too. I had no problem saving up more than $15k. I could easily self-fund my startup for a while. I'm far more interested in YC because it brings together smart people from across the world and fosters the sort of environment you'd see in a hacker lab or math competition.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#36

Post by nostrademons »

timg wrote: post #23

There is some meaning within this rambling. Here's a startup idea Mr PG: I will pay $50 for basic feedback on a very early startup idea and give you 1% equity. What are the alternatives? Is there any way to get feedback on startup plans from half competent people without broadcasting your ideas all over forums?

I actually proposed that (1% of startup equity in exchange for being able to ask questions and come to the YC dinners) when I got rejected from SFP2005. They ignored me.

I suspect the problem is that time is their scarcest resource, not money. They want to spend their time mentoring the startups with the greatest chance of success. Until you reach the point where you have a reasonable chance of success, you're stuck with YC News.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#37

Post by danielha »

There are so many failed assumptions made that this doesn't even stand as a valid opinion piece.

A valid point to make would have been: Accepted into the program or not, a good startup will learn from the experience and continue on.

Then stop there; everything else was either superfluous or unfounded.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#38

Post by pg »

BitGeek wrote: post #33
pg wrote: post #28

If YC is for losers, then Robert and Trevor and I are losers ourselves, because we modelled it on how we started Viaweb. We took $10k in seed funding from our friend Julian, who (since he was a lawyer) also set us up as a company. For us, Julian's help was both a necessary and sufficient condition of getting launched. Nothing has changed since then about life in the seed stage. Sure, maybe you can get to the next sta…

You missed his point. Yes, what you are doing is replicating the situation that worked for you. And this program is probably a good one for students who are still in college and want to build a company over the summer. But anyone who has left college and is working for a living should be able to save up one months living expenses every month. (EG: make 25 an hour, gross $4k, $3.6k after taxes, live on $1,500 a month…

I was 30 when we started Viaweb, and I needed the money.

Viaweb raised a total of $2.5 million during its life. Some of the time I was focused on funding. Investors like you to be, when you're asking for that much.

It's ridiculous to suggest that one has a choice of focusing on funding or building a business. Pretty nearly 100% of successful startups take outside funding, from Google on down.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#39

Post by Harj »

The very point of this article is an argument in favor of applying to YC and not against it.

Like it or not, all successful web companies have at some point taken on funding. It is an inevitable part of building a company.

Raising funding is a resource and time drain. The author argues that we should all be spending time building our products. I completely agree and that's why I applied to YC. It's the equivalent of outsourcing your "distractions". Being a YC company dramatically reduces the amount of time you have to spend finding PR and investment (things you will have to do at some point). These things will find you.

The real power of YC is not the money. It's their ability to take away most of the distractions that cause startups to fail and let you concentrate on what really matters - building your product.

The author shouldn't be so short sighted and should take a longer term view of building a business.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#40

Post by abossy »

pg wrote: post #38
BitGeek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed his point. Yes, what you are doing is replicating the situation that worked for you. And this program is probably a good one for students who are still in college and want to build a company over the summer. But anyone who has left college and is working for a living should be able to save up one months living expenses every month. (EG: make 25 an hour, gross $4k, $3.6k after taxes, live on $1,500 a month…

I was 30 when we started Viaweb, and I needed the money. Viaweb raised a total of $2.5 million during its life. Some of the time I was focused on funding. Investors like you to be, when you're asking for that much. It's ridiculous to suggest that one has a choice of focusing on funding or building a business. Pretty nearly 100% of successful startups take outside funding, from Google on down.

I believe Microsoft never took funding. There might be a few others. Anybody know? Apple? That wouldn't make sense. I can't recall the numbers off the top of my head.
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