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Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

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Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#31

Post by toothbrush »

bambax wrote: post #20
nothrabannosir wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- pedaling makes you hot and sweaty; you arrive at the office being a mess - when it rains you get super wet, much more than on a motorbike, because you have less protection and you don't carry special rain trousers with you at all times (whereas they're permanently stored on my motorbike) - also, when it rains, if you cover yourself up to avoid the rain, you get even hotter and sweatier I liked your point about peop…

Sweat: maybe it's just me, I don't know, I didn't ask other people; maybe other people don't sweat as much, or maybe they don't mind. It's hard to tell, though, because I never meet people using bikes at my clients' offices. And I don't see many people on bikes wearing suits; whereas in the subway there are many people with suits (i.e., "suits" aren't allergic to public transport). A thing about Paris that I find is…

> I don't see many people on bikes wearing suits

Something tells me you haven't visited the Netherlands :)

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#32

Post by conradfr »

smcl wrote: post #27
aout wrote: post #6

Most of the big avenues in Paris already have separated bike lanes on either the sidewalk or the bus lane but the road (for regular cars) still takes 80% of the space. The goal here is to leave more space to pedestrians (like on the river front) and reduce the "car space" in the city. The cost of public biking in Paris (3$/month) is very very very small when you consider the cost of having a car (at least 200$/month)…

Genuine question: how did you come up with $3/month? Is that a rough estimate of expenses (maintenance etc) over a year divided by 12, or is there some Paris bike permit required?

It's 29€ or 39€ for a yearly subscription to public bikes, I would guess he's referring to that : http://en.velib.paris.fr/Subscriptions-and-fees

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#33

Post by iakh »

The weather is too poor here to make this a realistic solution. We try to velib as much as we can, but you can only reliably bike maybe 4 months out of the year if you're lucky. The remaining days are either too wet or too cold or both. No amount of bike lanes or police enforcement can change the generally miserable weather of Paris.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#34

Post by cataflam »

legulere wrote: post #26
cataflam wrote: post #18

> Paris has a pollution problem. Instead of the smoke from Gauloise cigarettes and the aroma of freshly baked bread, the air is packed with smog, an issue that got so bad one day last month, the city forcibly halved traffic by allowing only cars with odd-number plates to drive. Of course this could have nothing do to with Germany phasing out its nuclear power plants and having to reopen coal power plants instead. The…

What you're writing doesn't make much sense. You say CO2 is not the problem but yet link to stuff about it. Coal plants in Germany are really clean though and CO2 is the only real problem of it. NO2 and PM gets filtered out. Usage of coal stayed roughly the same in the last 10 years [1]. If you directly compare it with the amount 10 years ago it's a slight decrease. The real issue for pollution lies in different sect…

Thanks for the link, I was misinformed.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#35

Post by toothbrush »

odiroot wrote: post #13
awjr wrote: post #2

When it comes to cycling, a network is only as good as its weakest link. Seville had an eleven fold increase in cycling by 'simply' installing protected cycle lanes. http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cyclin... The golden rule is to segregate. Give cars, bicycles, and feet their own space. DO NOT mix. If somebody can make a choice to put their 6 year old child on a bike and cycle around a city, you…

100% agreed. I used to be a driver, now I am only a pedestrian and a frequent cyclist. My city of birth and upbringing (Warsaw, Poland) has a huge problem of people not respecting each others' space. Unfortunately a lot of bike lines are just painted on sidewalks. This (and the fact there's not enough bike lanes) encourages cyclist to just drive around pedestrians, who sometimes also tend to drift onto dedicated bike…

IMHO, bikes should get segregated lanes (and indeed perhaps on slower sections can share with cars, as you suggest), but cyclists should be fined Really Heavily if caught on sidewalks. Where i live now, cyclists have to do the traffic gladiator thing and muscle cars out of the way, and are usually honked at, even when on the "bike lane" (which is just a strip painted onto the car lane, woo hoo). This results in a lot of animosity between cars and bikes (and frankly, grave danger for cyclists -- we aren't 1000kg metal blocks travelling at 60+ km/h), and frequently sees cyclists picking on the next weaker party, which is pedestrians. It's a very frustrating situation, if only the smaller dead-centre-of-town areas were declared pedestrian / delivery / bike only, and the rest of the place were equipped with segregated bike lanes, it would be much safer, and pollution would be curbed, in one fell swoop. Just thinking back at the number of near-accidents (and real ones, mind you) i've had because cars just act as if bicycles are invisible, frustrates me no end. I feel the Dutch law's approach is great: treat car drivers as if they are wielding 1000kg death-machines. This is very close to the truth, and therefore the onus should be on the strongest/least endangered party to pay attention to what they're doing.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#36

Post by ZeroGravitas »

yodsanklai wrote: post #25
bambax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

> when it rains you get super wet, much more than on a motorbike, because you have less protection and you don't carry special rain trousers with you at all times As a cyclist, I always carry waterproof clothes at all time (I still haven't found a way to protect my shoes though...).

You can buy waterproof "oversocks"/"overshoes" to keep shoes dry. I had a pair to wear over cycling-specific shoes, but I'm guessing you can use them (or buy similar) for "normal" shoes.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#37

Post by RyanMcGreal »

bambax wrote: post #14
bertil wrote: post #4

Financial incentives do not make sense: having a car in Paris is already crazy expensive. During the 20 years I lived there, I cycled everywhere, and I had an almost weekly accident, always at the same three intersections -- cars running into stationary bikes, half the time openly on purpose (there is a bolo for a taxi driver for attempted manslaughter under my name: his plaque was unlegible on the camera, but him ac…

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

You have articulated the usual list of excuses for not investing in cycling, and none of the excuses survives close scrutiny. There are many cities right now with a variety of climates, topographies, land use forms and densities that have very high rates of daily cycling. What's more, the cities with high rates of cycling all got there the same way: by investing in extensive, continuous networks of high quality cycling infrastructure.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#38

Post by agumonkey »

bambax wrote: post #14
bertil wrote: post #4

Financial incentives do not make sense: having a car in Paris is already crazy expensive. During the 20 years I lived there, I cycled everywhere, and I had an almost weekly accident, always at the same three intersections -- cars running into stationary bikes, half the time openly on purpose (there is a bolo for a taxi driver for attempted manslaughter under my name: his plaque was unlegible on the camera, but him ac…

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

A few more issues.

* Stealing:

You need a secure location to drop your bike, or you're under the risk of losing it[1]. I knew it was risky, but I never knew how easy, cheap and fast it is to steal a bike[2].

* Speed:

I used to ride above average speed on dedicated and isolated channel lanes (Ourcq), but you can't always keep that pace. Kids, families, slower users... It's risky for everyone. In town lanes are thinner and more crowded, thus I guess slower.

About sweat, how many Offices have showers ? Or maybe some water and a towel would do.

[1] or a piece of it. I had my wheel guards stolen in front of Police station.

[2] cable locks under 2cm diameter are pure fluff, guys can rip or cut them in 10 seconds. Even heavy chains won't resist some tools. Surprisingly people assume that someone cutting metal in the street must be the owner, and if they suspect he's not, why bother being harmed.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#39

Post by dmethvin »

bambax wrote: post #14
bertil wrote: post #4

Financial incentives do not make sense: having a car in Paris is already crazy expensive. During the 20 years I lived there, I cycled everywhere, and I had an almost weekly accident, always at the same three intersections -- cars running into stationary bikes, half the time openly on purpose (there is a bolo for a taxi driver for attempted manslaughter under my name: his plaque was unlegible on the camera, but him ac…

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

If sweating from the exertion is a problem, you could use something like an electric unicycle. They go up to 25km/h for 20km, can take hills, and are good for the "last mile" problem of getting to/from the train or metro. Judging from the YouTube videos they already seem to be in use around Paris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVJAeQbInYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InaqGRYq1z8

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#40

Post by ptaipale »

benev wrote: post #21
bambax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

I cycle commute in a hilly city (Bristol, UK), and I think you're just a little inexperienced at cycling for work. I can cycle hard and sweat, or I can cycle gently and sweat very little. We don't have a shower in the office, but I don't cycle too hard to work, and change shirt when I get in. It's not a problem. On the way home, I cycle hard and have a shower. I can stay completely dry when cycling by simply carrying…

Note that perspiration and metabolism in general varies greatly by person. Some people can ride a bike and not sweat; others will sweat, whatever they do (even if they are in a reasonably good shape).

I can do 160 km in a day on a bike (maybe more but that's the record over past year), but I can't do 2 km so that I wouldn't have to change shirt and preferably take a shower if I'm going to a business meeting.

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