Adopting Microservices at Netflix • Hacker News Board

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#31

Post by 15155 » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 5:46 PM UTC

harrylove wrote: post #12

ryandvm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of a tangent, but having worked at two companies that have a "unlimited" vacation policies, I can say that I detest the concept. It's basically an anti-policy. There are two major ramifications of unlimited vacation policies: 1) It changes how you feel about taking time off. Rather than paid time off being something that you have "earned", you evaluate your PTO in comparison to your teammates - specifically most…

Seems like #1 would be a symptom of having the policy without the culture to back it up. Was that your experience? For #2, I've worked for several companies, only one of which had a compensation package for unused vacation. All the rest have been use-it-or-lose-it by the end of each year. Getting paid for unused time sounds like a luxury. But I also recommend negotiating for more time off when you sign on, especially…

Yes, most are use-it-or-lose it, however, legally in some states you MUST be paid for the time unused (if you leave before the end of the calendar year.)

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#32

Post by Kalium » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #29

brendangregg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

G'Day, I work at Netflix, and we hire what's been called "fully formed adults". Here's a quote that can explain it better than I (also see the full article): Source https://hbr.org/2014/01/how-netflix-reinvented-hr/ar/1 : "Hire, Reward, and Tolerate Only Fully Formed Adults Over the years we learned that if we asked people to rely on logic and common sense instead of on formal policies, most of the time we would get…

I think rather than "fully-formed adults," what's described here is mutual compatibility. Which is kind of unfortunate, as weird as that sounds. We'd all like to work with people who operate with the same understanding, ethos, sense of humor, etc. It makes the day better, right? No office drama, no awkward meetings. But I would contend doing this tends to put you at a genetic disadvantage, and that some types of conf…

> What codified HR rules do is put some workplace guidelines around humanity - that allows a dissonant group of varied people to, you know, be themselves without necessarily worrying about conforming to avoid ruffling feathers.

I hate to be the one who says this, but that's not what those guidelines do. They don't allow varied people to be themselves. They make everyone be a self-similar group of other people. Other people who are not themselves.

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#33

Post by mc32 » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #2

Netflix doesn’t have an HR manual. There is a single guideline: “Act in NetFlix’s best interest.” The idea is that if an employee can’t figure out how to interpret the guideline in a given situation, he or she doesn’t have enough judgment to work there. If you don’t trust the judgment of the people on your team, you have to ask why you’re employing them. It’s true that you’ll have to fire people occasionally for viol…

I agree this sounds on the surface like it's very liberal but in effect it's stifling. Since there are no concrete outlines the onus is on you to figure things out. That sounds great but then like you said, who decides "best interest"?

It's an ideological wet dream. It's like saying, you can make any choice, you have the freedom, just make sure you make the "right choice".

Not to mention what happens when netflix's best interest conflicts with outside interests.

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#34

Post by look_lookatme » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

xena wrote: post #21

This looks like a thinly worded ad for Nginx Plus.

Sure, it's called content marketing and there is nothing inherently bad about it.

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#35

Post by ecesena » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 6:01 PM UTC

What I'm missing is actual examples of services split in micro services, with particular focus on the db (originally one db, then split in multiple dbs, one in each micro service).

From the talks I kind of inferred that sharing is a good example of micro service, but that's also a good example of something that one could outsource to addthis, sharethis and similar (at least, I'm speaking from the perspective of a relatively young startup).

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#36

Post by taeric » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 6:08 PM UTC

eddieroger wrote: post #25

a_c_s wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second sentence I agree with, but not the first. An 'untalented' developer is one who is perhaps slow to complete features, needs work on their design patterns, produces buggy code, etc. Process isn't needed for these people, rather it is for people who do or try to get away with things like: expense excessive purchases, frequently lie about being sick to get out of working, speak or act in a lewd or unprofession…

Process isn't wearing a suit to work. Process is having to fill out paperwork and present to a change review board to do things like modify a DNS record or install a service. Process is to keep morons from breaking what everyone else is doing correctly. If you have a team of people who know how to manage DNS in a way that won't explode, the request process be pared down to an email asking them to do it and trusting t…

Similar to Scotsmen, a true process(tm) is whatever successful people do to get work done.

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#37

Post by taeric » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 6:10 PM UTC

a_c_s wrote: post #16

harrylove wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like #1 would be a symptom of having the policy without the culture to back it up. Was that your experience? For #2, I've worked for several companies, only one of which had a compensation package for unused vacation. All the rest have been use-it-or-lose-it by the end of each year. Getting paid for unused time sounds like a luxury. But I also recommend negotiating for more time off when you sign on, especially…

Re: #2: in some US states, if you are laid off you are entitled to be compensated for vacation days you have accrued but not used.

This goes to the point that time off is something you have earned. It is literally part of your compensation.

So, having a policy of "take only what you need when you need it" would be akin to giving everyone access to the same bank account that runs the company and trusting them to use only what they need and/or feel is fair.

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#38

Post by brendangregg » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 6:21 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #29

brendangregg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

G'Day, I work at Netflix, and we hire what's been called "fully formed adults". Here's a quote that can explain it better than I (also see the full article): Source https://hbr.org/2014/01/how-netflix-reinvented-hr/ar/1 : "Hire, Reward, and Tolerate Only Fully Formed Adults Over the years we learned that if we asked people to rely on logic and common sense instead of on formal policies, most of the time we would get…

I think rather than "fully-formed adults," what's described here is mutual compatibility. Which is kind of unfortunate, as weird as that sounds. We'd all like to work with people who operate with the same understanding, ethos, sense of humor, etc. It makes the day better, right? No office drama, no awkward meetings. But I would contend doing this tends to put you at a genetic disadvantage, and that some types of conf…

Fully-formed adults does not mean like-minded people, which is a different topic (groupthink).

Expressing competing professional views is indeed healthy, and it's part of our culture deck: http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664

slide 13: "You challenge prevailing assumptions when warranted, and suggest better approaches"

slide 14: "You say what you think even if it is controversial"

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#39

Post by wahnfrieden » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 6:32 PM UTC

acaloiar wrote: post #17

"If you ask any developer whether a slower development process is better, no one ever says yes. Nor do management or customers ever complain that your development cycle is too fast for them." I've never known a developer not to speak up when the development cycle is too fast or a user who is not averse to the resultant buggy software.

Faster dev cycles can be safe, even safer, as long as the changes are accordingly incremental. See the whole "continuous delivery" line of thought.

Re: Adopting Microservices at Netflix

#40

Post by kitbrennan » Wed, Mar 11, 2015, 6:34 PM UTC

acaloiar wrote: post #17

"If you ask any developer whether a slower development process is better, no one ever says yes. Nor do management or customers ever complain that your development cycle is too fast for them." I've never known a developer not to speak up when the development cycle is too fast or a user who is not averse to the resultant buggy software.

You're confusing 'development cycle' and 'pushing code'.

Pushing code too fast is clearly a problem that causes bugs, and neither developers or users are a fan of.

The 'development cycle' includes the total time to implement something, including time taken to fix resultant bugs.

Where you can speed up the development cycle without introducing more bugs (eg. by implementing comprehensive testing and QA practices), then no one is going to complain.