Live data from Hacker News

Tired of Safari

quirksmode.org

31–40 of 125 posts

Re: Tired of Safari

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it's intentional malice. I think it's just Apple's engineers being spread too thin. Before Blink, they had Google's manpower also helping them. Now that's gone. Flexbox will come, it'll just take Apple a while to implement it.

Flexbox will come, it'll just take Apple a while to implement it. Flexbox is already fully implemented in Safari and has been since 6.1. The only difference is the use of a prefix.

[deleted]

Re: Tired of Safari

#32
Another example: they ignored IndexedDB for a couple years after every other major browser implemented it. Then they finally got around to releasing a version of Safari with IndexedDB support... and it's just hilariously broken in so many ways http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B...

I literally cannot fathom how such a horribly buggy release could be made in good faith. It's like nobody even tried to test it or use it before releasing it.

So, conspiracy theory time: They're doing all this to cripple web apps and force people to write native apps. This conspiracy theory also fits in nicely with how they won't let you run other web browsers on iOS, which would make the deficiencies of Safari somewhat less problematic.

Re: Tired of Safari

#33

Another example: they ignored IndexedDB for a couple years after every other major browser implemented it. Then they finally got around to releasing a version of Safari with IndexedDB support... and it's just hilariously broken in so many ways http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B... I literally cannot fathom how such a horribly buggy release could be made in good faith. It's like nobody even t…

It came late and it was buggy.

That rarely means malice. That usually means overstretched engineers.

Re: Tired of Safari

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit That's a really pedantic objection — prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished i…

Apple only has finite resources, too. I doubt WKWebView is neglected, they may just be focussing on fixing something else.

> Apple only has finite resources, too.

Apple's finite is larger than every other company out there (to quote an article from earlier this week). I'm pretty sure that any issues Safari is encountering is not due to Apple reaching a "finite" limit of any kind.

EDIT: Many of your responses posit Apple as some kind of underdog, struggling to make it in this industry. Given Apple's size and talent, this viewpoint is all but indefensible.

If having an industry leading browser it was a priority for Apple, it would get done. That it's not getting done indicates either that the developers are incompetent, or that the developers' efforts are genuine but being sabotaged due to politics. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Re: Tired of Safari

#35
post #14

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps. They shouldn't have any interest in a fast innovating web that gets on par with native apps which is their main lock-in for iOS, just like Microsoft 15 years ago. They only speed up their rendering engine and JS core but don't try to help on standards improving the web experience. BUT: I doubt this pointer event t…

I doubt it's intentional malice. I think it's just Apple's engineers being spread too thin. Before Blink, they had Google's manpower also helping them. Now that's gone. Flexbox will come, it'll just take Apple a while to implement it.

I have heard of a similar reasoning for Apple not supporting WebRTC.

Re: Tired of Safari

#36
post #14

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps. They shouldn't have any interest in a fast innovating web that gets on par with native apps which is their main lock-in for iOS, just like Microsoft 15 years ago. They only speed up their rendering engine and JS core but don't try to help on standards improving the web experience. BUT: I doubt this pointer event t…

>CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit.

Flexbox has been unprefixed in WebKit r173579[1][2]. Presumably, it will be available when Apple release the next version of Safari. Reading the Bugzilla, the reason of not unprefixing the feature seems to be lack of contributors on WebKit's part than anything.

[1]: http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/173579

[2]: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98420

Re: Tired of Safari

#37

Another example: they ignored IndexedDB for a couple years after every other major browser implemented it. Then they finally got around to releasing a version of Safari with IndexedDB support... and it's just hilariously broken in so many ways http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B... I literally cannot fathom how such a horribly buggy release could be made in good faith. It's like nobody even t…

[deleted]

Re: Tired of Safari

#38

Another example: they ignored IndexedDB for a couple years after every other major browser implemented it. Then they finally got around to releasing a version of Safari with IndexedDB support... and it's just hilariously broken in so many ways http://www.raymondcamden.com/2014/09/25/IndexedDB-on-iOS-8-B... I literally cannot fathom how such a horribly buggy release could be made in good faith. It's like nobody even t…

It came late and it was buggy. That rarely means malice. That usually means overstretched engineers.

QED It's not a priority for them, which is the point.

Re: Tired of Safari

#39

If only there was a better/faster mobile browser than Safari. The fact is there isn't, true, Google is not allowed to have its own version of Webkit/blink on iOS, but is Chrome Android better/as reliable as Safari?

is Chrome Android better/as reliable as Safari?

As a mobile web developer, yes, mobile Chrome is way better.

Re: Tired of Safari

#40
post #14

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps. They shouldn't have any interest in a fast innovating web that gets on par with native apps which is their main lock-in for iOS, just like Microsoft 15 years ago. They only speed up their rendering engine and JS core but don't try to help on standards improving the web experience. BUT: I doubt this pointer event t…

It's obvious that Apple slowed down innovating the web since the core of their business is iOS and apps No, it's not at all obvious, and the objections you've raised do not support your view at all. CSS Flexbox is the best positioning standard I encountered, every vendor supports it, only Apple still prefixes it with -webkit That's a really pedantic objection — prefixing CSS standards which aren't actually finished i…

> ... the objections you've raised do not support your view at all.

No reason to get emotional.

> That's a really pedantic objection —

Pedantic? Positioning elements is the most important feature of a layout system and CSS is totally broken in this regards, just try to vertical center something. Flexbox is godsend and finalized—every vendor removed the prefix. Wondering who is pedantic.

> Apple could easily just not have released WKWebView

The pressure they got for five years that they offer just the 10x slower UIWebview and give Safari the WKWebkit was the main reason and maybe they just released WKWebview to make the impression that they play along. This one bug makes WKWebview utterly useless.

However, would love to keep the tone in this discussion on a friendly level.

Post reply on HN